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Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

psychologytoday.com

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Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#91
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these two sentences are different: it's analogous to treating a symptom vs treating an underlying condition.

Yeah, I agree with that distinction. This is am important semantic discussion. But he just changed the name of the thing he wants to get rid of from "pain" to "signal". The signal is still a disorder. The signal is the thing that bothers us.

I think they is saying that if you put your hand on a hot thing, you get a signal. You can also call it pain. But the problem is not an internal problem with your body, but a consequence of your environment. So change your environment or what you are doing and the pain will disappear. Don't try to keep your environment the same and try to change within.

(I don't entirely agree with them, but that's my best summary of their argument).

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#92
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. One sees the depression as something to be fixed, the other sees the underlying problem causing the depression as something to be fixed.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

Are you familiar with what it’s like to have depression? It’s not something you can really ever get rid of, even if you can mitigate it with medication and lifestyle changes. It’s there, though not dominant, even when things are going well and even when you’re in a positive mood.

I struggle with similar feelings, and the idea that depression becomes something that is there but can be put to positive use absolutely tracks with my own experience.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#93
Anxiety & depression might be useful if handled well but if not...

The problem is often on the line of you get depression & anxiety as a symtom of some other problems if you fix the problems fine. If you don't it can get out control and then you can become conditioned to do "bad" responses to all kind of things making the symptom a illness itself. And making it really hard to get out of it.

Or at least this is how it often did look like to me when I looked at people with depression & anxiety.

Just to be clear with "bad" responses I mainly mean thinks like avoiding problems instead of fixing (or sidestepping) them making it with every time you do so harder to "fix" that underlying problem in the future.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#94
post #86
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, yes, I said the same thing in another reply. I am Bipolar getting by without meds. I do not have a disorder, I have a difference. So I need to live and eat differently.

Sorry but that attitude is extremely dangerous. Maybe you have a less severe case that's manageable without treatment but that's not the case for everyone. Mania states are actively brain damaging and can blow into full-on psychosis. There is no lifestyle change, diet or essential oil that's going to stop that from happening for folks with a severe bipolar disorder, which is absolutely a disease since it destroys you…

Less sever case!!! Ahahahahhah! Uhm, no, I assure you this is not the case. Hospitalized four times, suicide attempts, psychosis, hallucination, on permanent disability, my mother and brothers have it and attempted suicide, my nephew, suicide. At one pint I was on lithium, zyprexa, lamictal, and prozac all at the same time. They also thought I had MS at times because of all the neurological stuff that was happening.

You can say what you want, but they found I have problems metabolizing amino acids (BH4 deficiency) and this is fixed by a low protein diet. (More technically, I have GCH1 deficiency.) Now I only need Klonopin in emergency cases. But watching my exposure to oxidative stressors is important because it destroys BH4.

And you do not even know what causes Bipolar disorder so how the hell could you know what might help it? And this is another problem, no matter how good we feel with lifestyle changes, no one will believe us or even think we were ever sick. They tel me stress is a trigger for my illness yet they make me homeless and do not provide me with stable housing.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#95
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling somebody else they are wrong about their own personal experience deserves a downvote, which I don't have enough points to give you.

Here's a personal anecdote when I realized that perhaps "knee medical issues" are not "medical issues" at all: I was once running and my knee started hurting. I kept running and it kept hurting. I then saw that the reason my knee kept hurting was because I was using the wrong shoe, or was running not at the right form. After I changed these, the knee didn't hurt no more. Had I gone to a physiotherapist or an orthoped…

The reason your assumption doesn't ring true while leto_ii's assumption does is that we have a much, much better understanding of the knee than we do of the human mind, and much more objective tests for knee injuries than for depressive disorders.

So your assumption that you would have been given surgery seems extremely unlikely, while the assumption that a person with depressive symptoms would be prescribed psychiatric treatment rather than being recommended to leave their job seems possible.

For your anecdote, I would expect that you would be given a physical exam and then some kind of imaging investigation before proceeding to surgery. Even if the doctor you went to was incompetent during the physical scan, the imaging would very quickly show whether there is a need for some kind of surgery. Unfortunately, we don't have any equivalent tests for psychiatric problems. If your psychiatrist is incompetent, you may well be prescribed medication that other psychiatrists may have found unnecessary, and your only recourse is to trust your own judgement above theirs (which has its own problems, if you already suspect you have a mental disorder).

Of course, per their story, leto_ii didn't seek professional help, so we can't know what the professional conclusion would have been. Have you ever heard though of psychiatrists recommending job changes to their patients? More so, recommending they leave their job on the spot, without securing another job before hand?

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#96
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. One sees the depression as something to be fixed, the other sees the underlying problem causing the depression as something to be fixed.

Yeah, I agree. But the signal is still the disorder that needs to be fixed. Any psychiatrist will tell you that psychiatric medications only treat the symptoms of mood disorders and that they do not know the cause of most of them. It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain". They know these disorders are polygenic and environmental. But for some people, a short dose of SSR…

>It is hogwash that they think mood disorders are "only chemical imbalances in the brain".

Who are you quoting here? What psychiatrists think this? AFAIK, this hasn't been the meta for a long time.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#97
The ACE (adverse childhood experiences) study might be one of the most important health findings since Germ theory. In the sense that it finds a true root cause for a lot of health maladies, as well as physical mechanisms that cause these health issues in traumatized kid (all animals respond maladaptively to stress hormones introduced too early in development)

I’d recommend people read “The Deepest Well” - a great book on this topic.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#98

Anxiety is a disorder of the nervous system that is a by-product of civilization. We are one of the only mammals that gets anxiety, if you get anxiety in the wild you won't be alive much longer. Depression and PTSD are not responses to adversity. If you face adversity and suffer depression or PTSD you were raised psychologically weak in a way that is dangerous to you. There are people who have survived civil wars, dr…

> There are people who have survived civil wars, drought and mass starvation all over the world that don't have these problems get out of your bubble.

And similarly, there are people who have been traumatized by the same events.

In fact, there are war heroes who have taken bullets for their comrades, saved platoons, jumped at the enemy, and have been stricken with PTSD - if you think these people are "weak", then you probably also consider people who get cancer to be of inferior stock, right?

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#99
post #13

I'm most surprised to learn that this _isn't_ the current prevailing view in the medical profession. I am not a doctor, but it's always seemed more natural to me to view depression and anxiety as adaptive behaviours - albeit perhaps ones that can end up being triggered too far. I read an article once (wish I could find it) that one advantage of mild depression was as sort a "call for help and support" from other embe…

Because this actually IS the prevailing view, but it is not really actionable. What is the alternative to drugs? A real advantage of depression is you won't challenge authority so you'll be more likely to appease the Alpha members of the group. So what? How would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?

I would look at other fields of medicine, e.g. research around how certain diets and fasting protocols can reverse metabolic syndrome and type-ii diabetes along with a variety of other positive health benefits.

So what is a major focus of research? Finding ways to isolate/synthesize specific compounds to make a patentable drug that can be given in lieu of patients making lifestyle changes, because a) you can't patent a lifestyle change and put it in a pill and make billions of dollars off it and b) because patients are generally assumed to be unwilling/unable to make the lifestyle changes.

So, "how would this help a doctor treat a mental health patient?" is perhaps the wrong question, because it won't because the doctor isn't interested or trained nor has the time to guide a person through a lifestyle change. It nonetheless may be very relevant to you in deciding whether you'd rather be on insulin for the rest of your life vs. finding a way to lose weight. Just as it may be helpful for you to consider whether makes changes to lower/resolve sources of stress and anxiety in your life is a better option for managing mental distress than being on an SSRI/benzo indefinitely.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the AstraZeneca "how to be happy without psychopharmaceuticals" guide to living.

Re: Anxiety, depression, and PTSD may be adaptive responses to adversity: study

#100
post #59

Another thing to think about is that these responses may cross generations. i.e the anxiety someone experiences today may be due to trauma suffered by thier grandparents. The mind is a wonderful thing, but there is so much that we don't understand about it/ourselves.

This happens through epigentic changes, not through the mind or the brain.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/07/parents-emotional-tr...

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