Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#91

Post by minimuffins » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

Accujack wrote: post #25

anoxor wrote: post #16

Having been a part of a union I was mandated to enter when I took the job until the supreme court ruled that wasn't legal, actual unions are a far cry from how they are portrayed as helping the worker. I would honestly do anything in my power to not have to work in a union again. They are set up as antagonistic between administration and workers, and adds a layer of bureaucracy that I've only seen be negative. I've w…

Some people like unions, I think because they're lucky enough to have had a good experience, or to be part of a union that was not decayed by age or special interests. Unions should not be needed... the governments who represent the people working should provide the necessary protections for workers without unions being needed. Unions are a way for some people to get what all workers should have by default.

Who determines what workers "should" have by default? Once that moral determination is made, who makes sure it actually happens?

Nothing in the world happens without power. A union is a way to get some. "Should" doesn't mean anything without it.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#92

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

alecb wrote: post #85

dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome in a very very sad way. Several years ago, I started working for a company that was in the build up to a Yea/Nay vote for joining the union. During that time, 2 "goons" showed up at my apartment to discuss the benefits of joining the union and why not joining would be bad. However, these very "intelligent" goons showed up during the day, you know, working hours where I had a very low chance of being h…

I'm impressed by how low-quality this anti-union astroturf bot is. If you have sentience, how much did someone pay for you on Fiverr?

Are you suggesting I'm a bot? You are incorrect. Thanks for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you back stage.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#93

Post by uoaei » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

mattacular wrote: post #43

ouid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a growing part of america that is coming around to the idea that the path to more negotiating power for laborers is not unions. It is through basic income and social safety nets.

How would basic income and social safety nets increase labors negotiating power?

If healthcare is not tied to your job, you have much more leverage because you are not shackled to a particular employer with an attractive healthcare plan. The cost-benefit analysis of working for or leaving a company no longer includes basic human needs which are held effectively hostage via your employment status.

This can be extended to other social services such as childcare.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#94

Post by csb6 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

wnevets wrote: post #78

Whenever unions are mentioned on HN there always seems to be a coordinated effort to attack them in the comments, very interesting.

Yeah, it’s discouraging. But Hacker News is a place for capitalists (self-identified) or wannabe capitalists to hold discussions, and the site is run by a venture capital firm, so makes sense. Still discouraging to see the lack of education HNers have on unions. Maybe ignorance is a better word.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#95

Post by NiceWayToDoIT » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

While being in Basic Income meetings frequent subject was "what will happen to people rights when AI takes over" sadly this is example of the answer of what is the most probable outcome...

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#96

Post by rumanator » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

sacks2k wrote: post #74

mikestew wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were I to base career choices on every one-off negative anecdote about a particular work scenario, I would have gone to live in a monastery years ago. Of course, I'm probably replying to a Pinkerton employee right now. But, yeah, unions bad.

The core of a union is bad for workers that excel You won't get paid what you are worth and will get held back when you want a raise. In almost all unions that I've encountered, if you want a raise, it's as a collective. They also prevent technological advances and it only makes things more expensive for the consumer (Who do you think is fighting Uber and Lyft in major cities? Taxicab unions that were fleecing custom…

> The core of a union is bad for workers that excel

You should really let go of that folclore because it makes absolutely no sense at all and has absolutely zero connection to the real world.

First of all, it's widely known that Amazon already has a rigid employee structure that pays according to the internal pay scale. This alone shuts dispels the "omg unions keep top performers down", because internally your only shot at a pay increase is to run through their promotion obstacle course.

Unions are about employee representation and negotiating power. They are the only way to create change such as limiting working hours and demand safe working conditions and cut down on arbitrarily firing people for no reason. Without unions you have zero power. With an underperforming union you have some power. Sounds like even a bad union is progress.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#97

Post by imglorp » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

> The National Labor Relations Act of 1935 is a foundational statute of United States labor law which guarantees basic rights of private sector employees to organize into trade unions, engage in collective bargaining for better terms and conditions at work, and take collective action including strike if necessary.

It's truly late stage capitalism if companies can impede labor organizing so brazenly in public like this and have only encouragement at the federal level to go further. HN a few days ago (the 787 structural issue) was also talking about Boeing closing plants and sacrificing safety to avoid union labor.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#98

Post by chrisseaton » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

pydry wrote: post #86

chrisseaton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union activists in the UK have a reputation of being bullies, and in some cases in the past they've used physical violence to try to get people to do things their way. At the height of union fever back in the 80s it got so bad at one point that union activists dropped a concrete block on someone's head from a bridge because he was trying to get into work and they thought he should be striking (David Wilkie.) I would…

>At the height of union fever back in the 80s it got so bad at one point that union activists Were subjected to police brutality while largely peacefully picketing. Meanwhile the army was called in to do their jobs... Apparently there was evidence of "excessive violence by police officers, a false narrative from police exaggerating violence by miners, perjury by officers giving evidence to prosecute the arrested men,…

I don't know of anyone who disputes the killing of Wilkie happened or claims that it was somehow exaggerated.

As a taxi driver he was also not a police officer or an agent of the state. He was not armed or causing violence to anyone.

He was just driving someone who didn't agree with the union to work.

So they killed him.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#99

Post by wnevets » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

alecb wrote: post #89

wnevets wrote: post #78

Whenever unions are mentioned on HN there always seems to be a coordinated effort to attack them in the comments, very interesting.

A total coincidence that 15 FWD: FWD: UNIon RUInEd My Life stories immediately dominate the conversation whenever a story like this hits the front page.

Yes I too used to belong to a scary union. I was forced pay dues and there was this bad employee that didn't get fired! Now at my non-union job we only have the best employees and managers because we are allowed to fire the bad ones.

Re: Amazon deletes job listings for analysts to track ‘labor organizing threats’

#100

Post by dylan604 » Tue, Sep 01, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

minimuffins wrote: post #84

dylan604 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is awesome in a very very sad way. Several years ago, I started working for a company that was in the build up to a Yea/Nay vote for joining the union. During that time, 2 "goons" showed up at my apartment to discuss the benefits of joining the union and why not joining would be bad. However, these very "intelligent" goons showed up during the day, you know, working hours where I had a very low chance of being h…

What union did this?

In my mind they are all the same. I honestly paid so little attention, I didn't even do the research. Everyone just kept referring to the local, but I don't remember what number. This was 2010 time frame. I've slept (a lot) since then.

Edit: Turns out it was IATSE