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Why we are suing the Administration

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Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#91

Post by m11a »

swiley wrote: post #68
protez wrote: post #63

All Chinese companies are subsidiaries of Chinese communists party. There is no single exception. TikTok and Huawei have been exploiting all of its information and power to influence in the favor of China Communist Party and it's against not just us, but all the free states and people in proper nations.

Isn’t pine64 a Chinese company? I haven’t seen them do anything pro ccp.

I think it depends on the size of the company. Some maintain a further distance from the party successfully, some even manage to criticise it, but I don't think you get to ByteDance levels of growth without close connection to the party. Consider that ByteDance has its own CCP Party Secretary.

Of course, this doesn't mean you're exploiting US data at the whim of the party, which is what Trump's actions imply the company is doing. I think you can successfully maintain a separate US structure from their Chinese one, and I don't think China really cares much for what US people do in their own country.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#92

Post by simion314 »

ThomPete wrote: post #49
simion314 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would need to explain how TicTok brainwashes americans to vote(or not vote) but Facebook and Twitter categorically does not do the same thing. If "brainwashing" on social media exists then all should be made illegal not only the a small subset.

Thats not really why they are worried about TikTok, it comes back to the issue of the CCP and and that China defacto owns TikTok which means that information can be harvested. This is G5 controversy all over. The brainwashing part is just noise. The real concern is real given Chinas history.

I mean FB has a lot of information about users, have you seen how you are tagged in the ads ? Any private person can target any subgroup and we know that FB transferred this data to different companies in the past, the probability that some government somewhere that wanted the FB data does not have it yet (maybe a bit outdated) is Zero.

Let's assume you block all applications that are suspected of relations with CCP (no proof, no trial) this won't stop CCP just buying this data from shady american (or foreign) companies so it would be smart to fix the root of the problem(data collection and brainwashing)

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#93

Post by simion314 »

m0zg wrote: post #51
simion314 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the point, make a new law. I mean FB way where I can target with ads extremely precise groups make it possible to systematically slit a nation in all the political regions, split the population in relevant groups, and preciously target them non stop with fake or misleading stuff. This could be fixed in many , many ways - like not allowing political ads, or not allowing targeted political ads, or labeling clea…

There already exists a law: if there's a threat to national security (which there is), the executive branch has relatively broad discretion. You can't really "make a law" in the time remaining until election, not with Pelosi turning everything into a political showdown, and _especially_ not if China prefers Biden (which, according to Nancy Pelosi it does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arS5qzS95cE ). Here's one way…

Then this trail would hopefully surface the evidence about this National Security issue and we are not left without a retraction like in the case where China was accused of planting chips in PC motherboards.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#94

Post by raziel2p »

brabel wrote: post #54
disgu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're in favor of the EU forcing Tesla, Facebook, Microsoft to sell their European business to European companies then because those American companies are clearly not up to European privacy standards? We literally know for a fact that American companies do all the things the Trump administration is accusing TikTok of doing. We've known this since the Snowden revelations. It's also a 100% different scenario becau…

Exactly! I am in favour of that. The EU protects its citizens but only to the degree it doesn't damage its relationship with the US. They need to grow some balls and stop treating the US as if it were its best mate. Clearly they are not and their laws do not protect foreign nationals in any way, or at least nearly as much as EU regulations would have them do.

On the flip side, forcing US companies to comply with EU regulations has benefits for US citizens and helps encourage the US to adopt similar laws.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#95

Post by kolla »

pryce wrote: post #61
bootloop wrote: post #7

Why is the US always focusing on individual companies instead of working on laws to protect them from all companies invading the privacy of their citizens? Banning one player isn't going to help much in the long run I would think. Edit: I am an EU citizen if it matters.

I am coming to believe that what we are seeing is a kind of "race" to see which aspiring superpowers will eventually control (or own) the main companies that are intentionally the most successful in invading the privacy of citizens. People can only inhabit a finite number of social media networks, and there can eventually only be a fairly small number of big players in a position to produce massively detailed rich pr…

Feels more like companies own the aspiring superpowers with all the lobbying going around in the US.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#96

Post by TeMPOraL »

emteycz wrote: post #25
simion314 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would need to explain how TicTok brainwashes americans to vote(or not vote) but Facebook and Twitter categorically does not do the same thing. If "brainwashing" on social media exists then all should be made illegal not only the a small subset.

Adults watch TikTok for voting suggestions? The American society is getting weirder every day.

Adults believe in every picture with a caption or video with text and sad music in it, as long as it doesn't have any clear association with a government. After all, it's not propaganda if the source is private, and the message is ostensibly made for teh lulz, right?

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#97

Post by martin_drapeau »

adrianN wrote: post #13
bootloop wrote: post #7

Why is the US always focusing on individual companies instead of working on laws to protect them from all companies invading the privacy of their citizens? Banning one player isn't going to help much in the long run I would think. Edit: I am an EU citizen if it matters.

Maybe because protecting the privacy of the citizens is not the actual goal.

Part of the greater trade wars between the US and China I think.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#98

Post by kinleyd »

johnhenry wrote: post #84
bootloop wrote: post #7

Why is the US always focusing on individual companies instead of working on laws to protect them from all companies invading the privacy of their citizens? Banning one player isn't going to help much in the long run I would think. Edit: I am an EU citizen if it matters.

In this case, it's probably more about the president acting like a "Big Man" and being "tough on China" than actual concern for it's citizens.

I'm pretty sure it's fuelled by pettiness following the sinking of Trump's rally in Tulsa, Okla by TikTok teens and K-Pop Stans. Being "tough on China" and national security are convenient cover. It's just sad.

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#99

Post by wombatmobile »

President Trump's executive order states these reasons for banning TikTok:

"TikTok automatically captures vast swaths of information from its users, including Internet and other network activity information such as location data and browsing and search histories. This data collection threatens to allow the Chinese Communist Party access to Americans’ personal and proprietary information — potentially allowing China to track the locations of Federal employees and contractors, build dossiers of personal information for blackmail, and conduct corporate espionage.

"TikTok also reportedly censors content that the Chinese Communist Party deems politically sensitive, such as content concerning protests in Hong Kong and China’s treatment of Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities. This mobile application may also be used for disinformation campaigns that benefit the Chinese Communist Party, such as when TikTok videos spread debunked conspiracy theories about the origins of the 2019 Novel Coronavirus."

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or...

Re: Why we are suing the Administration

#100

Post by euix »

Interesting article in Bloomberg just now: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-01/bytedance....

The kicker is at the end:

“He thought that by making a promise to follow international standards or rules he would be able to escape the regulation or the kind of pressure from the American government,” said Ding. “But I think now he realizes he might have been wrong and that if he doesn’t want to sell the company, the only one who can help him is the Chinese government -- which is what he’s tried to avoid the past few years.”

It's the same with Huawei, if Huawei wasn't a government owned or backed company before, after the U.S. tried to kneecap it, it sure as hell will become one if only to survive.

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