I just lost 1,400 BTC • Hacker News Board

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#91

Post by tialaramex » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

smabie wrote: post #39

thebean11 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree, only the first $250k is insured. I would never store $16M cash in a bank. You aren't protected against the bank becoming insolvent.

Okay... where would you store 16m?

I would use the bank owned by my government, the National Savings and Investment bank. And I do.

The reason is that since the government owns this bank, and the government issues the money, if the bank fails the government fails too and the money is now worthless anyway.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#92

Post by qwertox » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

notRobot wrote: post #12

Stuff like this is why you shouldn't use a lightweight wallet and should use the official wallet, or at least host a full node. Read more here: Full nodes: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Full_node Lightweight nodes: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Lightweight_node

What about an hardware wallet like Ledger?

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#93

Post by herpderperator » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #90

herpderperator wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between that and a bank?

Well the fun part is that the way it's different is that there would be a bank account with your money in it, that the brokerage isn't allowed to touch. So, you're protected from the brokerage going bankrupt - your money is still yours if that happens. But it's still in a bank account, so if the bank goes under you're screwed. See my other comment in this thread though...

SIPC isn't unlimited, though:

The Securities Investor Protection Corporation (SIPC) was created to protect against the loss of customer assets at brokerage firms. SIPC offers protection of up to $500,000, including a $250,000 limit for cash, if a brokerage firm fails, and covers most types of securities, such as stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. [0]

[0] https://www.schwab.com/public/file/P-3042070/Asset_Protectio...

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#94

Post by knorker » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:03 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #79

knorker wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why it's not used for important purchases. Except illegal ones.

And it's why you'll notice that bill denominations didn't follow inflation. If no legitimate transactions need $100M in cash, it follows there is no need to make it practical to actually move $100M in cash. For a while there was a workaround, it lasted a long time in the United States and after it ended Hollywood kept it around (in fiction) partly by using plots that were written when it was real and partly just beca…

That's a really good point. I recently transferred a few hundred k. It's a little bit of a hassle, but you know what, the system SHOULD look at that more closely. And it can, because that scales.

What we need is scalable micropayments, not ability to more easily lose $100M one transaction.

The people who do need to move $100M it's ok if we have a separate system for.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#95

Post by mcv » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:04 PM UTC

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #51

gota wrote: post #5

I've said this time and time again: 'be your own bank' is a terrible design error, not a feature, for 99.99% of users. This guy is most likely somewhat technically literate, and this happened to him.

There is no mandate in Bitcoin to 'be your own bank' - its just an option. It is a feature and a very good one for people who are afraid of government intrusion into how they use their money. If you don't care about this "feature" you can turn it off by putting your crypto in Coinbase or other exchanges where it will be insured.

The problem with such a new, unproven, and completely unregulated system, many alternatives to 'be your own bank' are also not good options. Plenty of exchanges have lost a lot of people's money. It's hard to tell which wallet or exchange is reliable and which isn't. Instead of trusting a system that's tightly regulated in order to protect people's money, you're expected to trust a system that's completely unregulated, that's filled with crooks and cowboys and idiots who keep creatively or accidentally figuring out new ways to lose your money.

It's a good example of why regulation is necessary in banking.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#96

Post by captn3m0 » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

Canada wrote: post #66

I can't believe someone would even allow a system with that balance to even connect to the internet. It's like filling a car with gold bars, driving it around town, and hoping nothing bad happens. He could have created another wallet, preferably a multisig, created the transaction with the software wallet offline, copied the signed transaction off and broadcast it from another system. What he did was reckless. Some p…

From looking at the transaction history, looks like it was an actively used account, even.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#97

Post by tootie » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

herpderperator wrote: post #78

tootie wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an investment account with a reputable brokerage.

What's the difference between that and a bank?

My holdings accumulate capital gains and are insured by market forces rather than the FDIC. I can put them in volatile holdings like stocks, or fixed income or even just money markets. That's pretty much what banks are doing and just keeping a bigger percentage of the returns for themselves.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#98

Post by zajio1am » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

ztratar wrote: post #6

Many folks shit on the modern financial system, with its centralization and Government-coupling, but things like this are actually trackable and reversible in that ecosystem. The safeguards have evolved over centuries. I am curious when crypto will get there. Maybe 10 years or so?

> but things like this are actually trackable and reversible in that ecosystem

I do not know about US, but in EU bank transfers are generally not reversible (except forced by courts). If you send money to wrong bank number, you cannot cancel the transaction in bank, you need to ask the owner of that account to send them back.

Compared to BTC, there are two differences - it is possible to identify an account holder and justice system can effectively force bank transfers.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#99

Post by vmception » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:07 PM UTC

herpderperator wrote: post #85

jkepler wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. One can store keys offline. That's what hardware wallets do.

In order to do anything with Bitcoin, which appears to be what the author wanted, you would have to be connected to the Internet. Keys being stored in hardware wallet sure, but the gold bars are still in public view. Hardware wallets aren't without their flaws. With an application-level vulneravility in a hardware wallet, you are still screwed. Here is just one example: https://www.ledger.com/improving-the-ecosystem-…

You can sign transactions offline and hand deliver the file if you felt so inclined.

Signed transactions cant be modified.

Someone needs to make sure nodes see it that transaction and add it to the database, eventually.

This user experience has not been refined, but is very possible. A system with fewer nodes, like if the internet was attacked and not available, would still work for this currency.

Re: I just lost 1,400 BTC

#100

Post by vmception » Mon, Aug 31, 2020, 7:10 PM UTC

echopom wrote: post #70

This is fascinating. Honestly , while I found BlockChain & Immutable Ledger disruptive technology , I have zero trust in cryptos. The amount of scam in this industry is just obscene, unlike banking , there is no such thing as insurance for your wallet or legal recourse to get back your assets, your pretty much on your own and I'm fairly convinced he won't get back his 1.5M$ Bitcoin . I feel bad for him , but there is…

There is a lot more scamming in those legal recourse systems, they have the benefit of not being masqueraded as international news every time!

The user experience where you personally still have your money might be something you like.

Also it was $16m bitcoin