2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park • Hacker News Board

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#91

Post by macintux » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #82

henearkr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shut up? Your post was very informative and thanks to you I learned a lot of things! However, I bet that the scale of the wildfires in our apocalyptic late-Anthropocene is something hardly seen before in healthy forests... all these species would be better off with less of it.

I have a medical condition and I was extremely frazzled. I can't judge if I'm making sense or not when I'm really frazzled. I've napped a bit, so I'm less frazzled now, but I'm still dealing with a lot of stress, as is often the case.

I concur with henearkr: that was fascinating. Thanks for contributing to the discussion.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#92

Post by amluto » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

hardmath123 wrote: post #23

DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

Redwoods not only survive the fires, they tend to proliferate afterwards. After lesser trees have been cleared out by the fires, redwood seedlings take root. Redwoods also thrive in low rain areas that are prone to fog because they benefit from the fog in a way that other trees do not. I once suggested redwoods as an alternate or additional metaphor for giftedness re Stephanie Tolan's "Is it a cheetah?" https://www.s…

I believe the heat of a wildfire is literally the trigger for the cone to open up and release the redwood's seeds! (I don't know the exact mechanism for this, though.)

There may well be a mechanism by which fire increases redwood germination, but coast redwoods produce many, many viable seedlings without fire.

Source: I have seen them!

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#93

Post by DFHippie » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 1:49 PM UTC

quixoticelixer- wrote: post #57

keeganpoppen wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are referring to Lodgepole Pines

There are quite a large number of pines that do this.

Another example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_pine

The general phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotiny

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#94

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #85

thaumasiotes wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that modern recorded history in California goes back much, much less than 1400 years?

Recorded by humans. Tree rings are also a record of history.

[deleted]

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#95

Post by woofie11 » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #86

Let's take a moment and recognize the fear-mongering going on a few days ago where there were articles saying "this time is different because of climate change, this time climate change super fires have caused a national treasure to be destroyed"

I'm not quite sure that was fearmongering, so much as people operating from limited information. It's reasonable that people will make mistakes.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#96

Post by 12xo » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

samcheng wrote: post #8

A hundred miles north of this fire, at the Armstrong Redwood State Park, there is another lightning-caused wildfire that is burning through an old growth grove. That fire is burning through the forest floor only, and is significantly less dangerous. The 1400-year-old Armstrong tree, and park buildings, have been protected, while the fire is free to burn through the surrounding undergrowth. Everyone involved seems to…

Fire vs firestorms.

A slow moving, low fuel burn is very good for the forest. A fast moving, extremely hot firestorm will burn everything to bits and destroy the ecosystem for decades.

Redwoods, and other plants and trees cannot survive a firestorm. This is the problem with our forest fires these days. They are too hot because the fuel is both dry and overgrown and condensed into non-natural areas. When we build so many homes and cities in the forests, we change their natural make-up and put everything at risk.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#97

Post by gdubs » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:18 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #5

Redwoods not only survive the fires, they tend to proliferate afterwards. After lesser trees have been cleared out by the fires, redwood seedlings take root. Redwoods also thrive in low rain areas that are prone to fog because they benefit from the fog in a way that other trees do not. I once suggested redwoods as an alternate or additional metaphor for giftedness re Stephanie Tolan's "Is it a cheetah?" https://www.s…

Not all fires are created equal. While fires are a natural part of many ecosystems, many of today’s fires are more powerful and become “ladder fires” where a build-up of fuel on the ground causes the fire to reach the crowns and cause severe damage to even fire-resistant species.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#98

Post by cmpb » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:29 PM UTC

henearkr wrote: post #79

DoreenMichele wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I know there is a pine that does that, but I'm in rough shape and trying to stay out of trouble, which is challenging for me under the best of circumstances. I remember the pine cone of I think a yellow pine species opens up at 170 degrees, so it typically opens in response to fire. A quick google suggests it is called a Jack Pine. Hurricanes are also thought to be responsible for bringing fly species t…

Why shut up? Your post was very informative and thanks to you I learned a lot of things! However, I bet that the scale of the wildfires in our apocalyptic late-Anthropocene is something hardly seen before in healthy forests... all these species would be better off with less of it.

That's an interesting concept. Normally fire is a healthy part of the ecosystem, but as humans we've changed the context in which fires occur (e.g. by reducing naturally occurring fire and by making droughts more common) such that when they do occur they are more destructive than many species are able to handle. If that is the case, I wonder if there is a way we could reintroduce fires to the system (i.e. controlled burns) in such a way that it doesn't completely destroy the ecosystem.

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#99

Post by gdubs » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

I was elated to read this, and then disappointed at the comments here. It seems to be feeding an argument of “see, fires are natural and these trees are old - Climate Change is a fear-mongering hoax!”

Firestorms are not the meandering fires that have long been a natural part of ecosystems. Ladder fires — where fire leaves the forest floor, up to the crowns, creating a wall of fire that can change weather patterns — are incredibly powerful events. Despite how much fire these trees have survived over their long lives, they dodged a bullet here.

As an environmentalist, seeing that these trees won this battle is stirring. But it’s cavalier to assume they’ll win the next fight, or the one after that.

Fires are becoming more intense, more frequent, more damaging. Part of this is because the yearly burns the Native American Indians did to maintain the habitat have gone the way of history. Part of it is due to natural drought cycles. Part of it is our increasing development of the urban-wilderness interface. And part of it is climate change. The world is getting hotter, and drier. We are in the midst of a mass extinction event. These trees survived today, but will we do anything to help them survive this century?

Re: 2,000-year-old redwoods survive wildfire at California's oldest state park

#100

Post by d33lio » Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:58 PM UTC

The fires ravaging these forests is really sad, although I was pretty meh on living in the Bay Area, the immediate access to amazing state wildlife parks was absolutely unparalleled. IMO, who cares if it's torching scrubby LA hills or hollywood mansions?

My visit to Big Basin after huge rains in 2017 (arguably a stupid decision) was basically the first time I could say I had a "religious" experience in nature. Forests are most alive after a big rain, the entire day I spent there is absolutely seared into my mind. Every conceivable part of the forest was alive, surging out of the ground and out to take a look at what was new.

It's important to note that tragedy is an all too common step in evolutionary time for forests, this is the way that they continue to evolve and move forward. The last time I visited was after huge mud slides and rivers overrunning their banks. Many of the trails were blocked by 12' diameter trees that had fallen when the soil beneath their roots became too waterlogged or washed away. I can only hope that these forests will continue to thrive beyond my lifetime.

I will say though, visiting Big Basin really made me question how we could actually cut down forests like this just to build stupid houses. And we still are, logging trucks and signs for logging companies are all over the roads surrounding Big Basin.