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UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

businessinsider.com

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Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#91

Post by PeterisP »

cactus2093 wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0]. How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's n…

A lot of the difference is caused by the words "full time" - the parent post and related arguments are not using these words.

The main case here is about requiring employee status or employee-like basic standards of workers rights for the drivers, even if they don't work full time for a single company but (for example) five hours for Uber followed by three hours for Lyft on the same day.

Workforce moving to the 'gig economy' does not by itself justify abandoning the basic standards and protections from exploitation that our society has decided long ago to afford for even the poorest and most vulnerable workers. There currently are legal loopholes that enable the 'gig employers' to skip these standards. That's a bug, not a feature - it should be fixed.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#92

Post by jawns »

cactus2093 wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0]. How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's n…

It's not surprising that only a minority would want to be full-time employees.

But that's the wrong question.

The better question is: What percentage would want to be either full-time or part-time employees?

I would imagine the percentage would be much higher.

When classified as part-time employees, they'd have much of the same flexibility they currently enjoy, but they would at least be covered under minimum-wage laws, same as part-time workers who work at McDonald's or the grocery store.

If Uber/Lyft don't think it's financially viable to offer its workers the same bare-minimum protections that a McDonald's worker gets, then I don't see how it can claim to be a non-exploitative business.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#93

Post by abdullahkhalids »

cactus2093 wrote: post #67
supernova87a wrote: post #32

Uber is making it harder and harder to get on board with the idea that it's not an employer. Leveling out people's pay over multiple trips or retroactively adjusting the reward per job sure sounds like an employer having very strong control over the work conditions and compensation. And this almost brings back echoes of Doordash (?) when it was caught taking drivers' tips so that their pay was reduced to the minimum…

Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0]. How does this not stop this whole conversation in its tracks immediately? There's so much grandstanding about this, you and every other politician or upper middle class tech worker has their takes on how these poor drivers are being tricked into bad deals they can't understand and need the protection of full-time employment. But it's n…

> Just 17% of Uber and Lyft drivers surveyed want to remain full-time employees [0].

Because that doesn't include the number of people who would want to be ride-share/delivery drivers but don't because they can't be employees.

That pool could have 99% people who want to be employees, but only a small number them (17% of current drivers) keep driving despite their preferences.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#94

Post by lotsofpulp »

iso1631 wrote: post #61
artoonie wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(b) you can change your tip afterward if your service was not as expected. Just like in a restaurant: maybe your default tip is 25%, but great service bumps that up, and bad service bumps it down. You go in expecting to pay 25%.

We bought a second car at the weekend, I phoned up my insurance company and asked them to put it on. They did so, and it was cheaper than the quote I'd got online - £180 for 9 months vs £290 for 12 months. So I immediately tipped the person on the phone £45 How ridiculous does that seem?

I’ve even started asking my friends and family for tips anytime I do anything for them.

US culture of tipping is so ridiculous that I think people actually derive enjoyment from tipping by giving themselves an ego boost when they do, as some sort of charity or having role played as an extremely rich person being benevolent with their wealth.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#95

Post by cik2e »

Jasper_ wrote: post #84
supernova87a wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't Uber's argument about this be that drivers do get to set their rates by the platform showing them and matching them with jobs that are at a rate they accept? Just because they can't put out a published $ figure on their desired per job rate, doesn't mean they're not setting their own rates that they accept?

Uber Pool functions so that drivers automatically getting more and more riders added to their trip, without any way for them to reject passengers. I've been told stories of drivers getting 20+ pool rider chains in a row, without any option to take a break.

This is false. It’s like 2 clicks to stop incoming requests, same with Lyft.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#96

Post by cortesoft »

Balgair wrote: post #89
cortesoft wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get so frustrated when people act like these food delivery services aren’t a WAY better user experience than the old version of having to call for delivery. So many times, I will be super busy with the kids, or work, or housework, and I will just pull up DoorDash with one hand (while the other is feeding a hangry 1 year old) and hit ‘reorder’ on one of my past meals. Literally 15 seconds and food is on the way. Com…

Not to trivialize your experiences (toddlers are not easy), but for me, the list you give isn't all that much of a barrier. Yes, it is simpler to use the app, but not all that much more. Also, where I am, they take the credit card at the door, not over the phone. Most use a Square-style card reader attached to a work phone, even the mom-n-pop delivery, even now in the pandemic (they use gloves mostly).

Again, I am not saying it isn't doable to order the old fashioned way, but the newer system is CLEARLY easier and faster. There is simply no way you could order and be done with a call in order in 15 seconds.

Your argument (that it is not much of a barrier to use the old way) can be made for so many of the quality of life improvements we have made over the course of human history. Not every advancement is an entire new category of things we can accomplish; so much is just slight improvements that save time and make things a bit easier.

I feel like there has been a backlash against time saving tech, where people wax nostalgic about how much better the older/slower systems were. I don't understand it. I am so happy for all the timesaving advancements we have made over the years. Now, if we don't use that saved time wisely, that is a whole other issue. However, I don't think going back to slower systems is the solution to not using our free time well.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#97

Post by kevingadd »

kaonashi wrote: post #17

Always deplatform your tips.

Agreed, but keep in mind that the platforms have started making design changes to discourage this. Some of them now surface the tip to the driver which can lead to $0 in-app tips lowering the displayed value of your request so you end up being passed over for other people. If you don't tip in the app you risk waiting a lot longer for service.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#98

Post by rietta »

iso1631 wrote: post #62
ab_testing wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

The only reason I could think of to use something like ubereats, deliveroo, justeat, etc would be if I wanted a non-pizza delivered while I was staying in a hotel in a strange city somewhere. If I'm at home I'll look at the menu of my favourite indian/chineese/whatever place, phone them up, and they deliver it as they have done for decades. I've spent two nights in a hotel since March, normally it's 70 a year. One ni…

This was exactly me in Oakland, CA, last year when on a business trip from Atlanta. On the way to the hotel, I was on a shuttle with a pilots and flight crew heading to stay overnight. Was advised not to go walking around by myself. Ended up using Doordash for the first time that night at the Hotel. Now my wife has us on the monthly subscription plan back home because of COVID.

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#99

Post by [deleted] »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #64
ab_testing wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

Food delivery will probably never be profitable unless you're able to schedule food delivery days ahead... and utilize the same pathing algorithms used for regular deliveries (like UPS and Fedex). There's a maximum amount of time someone will wait (1 hour) and the product degrades after it's created (cools off)

[deleted]

Re: UberEats could be underpaying delivery drivers on 21% of trips

#100

Post by toast0 »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #64
ab_testing wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

COVID-19 is like the golden age of food delivery. If these food delivery apps are not profitable now, they will probably never be profitable. When the severity of COVID subsides in a few years, people will like to go out to eat again rather than have it delivered.

Food delivery will probably never be profitable unless you're able to schedule food delivery days ahead... and utilize the same pathing algorithms used for regular deliveries (like UPS and Fedex). There's a maximum amount of time someone will wait (1 hour) and the product degrades after it's created (cools off)

I mean, it's not that bad. Delivery is an important part of many restaurants (pizza, jimmy johns (sandwiches), chinese in many cities). The issue in my mind is those restaurants with hugh delivery volume can do multiple deliveries in a single run, and can time the completion of the food to the return of the driver, so the food doesn't spend a lot of time sitting at the restaurant, and neither does the driver.

It's very hard to do that when you're aggregating restaurants and drivers.

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