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Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

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Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, I would maybe rephrase this as exploitation. "Business success" (define as you see fit), accompanies exploitation. "Screwing" people, could fall under exploitation, but feels more malicious, whereas exploitation can take many forms and is commonly accepted. It can be exploiting a rules loop hole, exploiting worker pay, exploiting current wealth status, exploiting someone's social connections, etc. Expl…

That concept of exploitation makes zero sense on a microeconomic or macroeconomic level. If there is any money available to expand that is charging more money than they need to survive. A company could always pay their workers more unless it brought them to precarity - even the actual workers wouldn't want that and they are the direct beneficaries of said excess! That would be like your drug dealer staging an interve…

I don't understand your argument. I don't think a business would succeed if it was pushed to precarity, so this is not dealing with exploitation. Exploitation needs to present in many aspects to create business success, it supports the definition of profit. The money made exceeds what it took to make the product or service. To profit is to exploit.

I'm not trying to cast the act of exploitation in business in a judgmental way, but rather to show it exists, because it is universally accepted. It's the other side of the same coin. Yes, it's a weird interpretation of Marxian economics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation_of_labour

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#92
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which then makes you wonder: do we really need that much technological progress? Spoken like someone who takes all of the technological progress of the last centuries for granted. And I don't intend that as a personal attack. Many, many people think like you do, because they can't even begin to imagine a life without the fruits of progress. As for myself, I'm eternally thankful for that progress, for without it, I…

You bring up some excellent points, and you are right that I most likely take most technology for granted. I would say the issues that you bring up don't have a clear "right answer", and it's all about perspective. Me and my siblings were all born thanks to c-sections. Without that, none of us would have been born and my mom would have died trying to give birth. Are we better off having been born? Can't say. Is the w…

> Are we better off having been born? Can't say.

If you're not sure whether there's a point in being alive, then why do you think there's a point in not "mentally/emotionally enslaving ourselves", as you wrote in your original post? If you have no terminal values [1], there is no point in anything, and everything is meaningless.

I suspect that you do value being alive [2], and your father does value his wife not having died in childbirth. But you take being alive for granted, because actually facing death (yours or that of your children) is a rare occurence, and the probability that you or your loved ones die before the age of 60 is very low. Again, mostly thanks to technological progress.

[1] I.e., a value that is not in service of another value – similar to an axiom in mathematics.

[2] If you really don't value being alive, you might suffer from depression. In this case, please seek professional help.

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#93
post #75

It could be Asian thing (I'm Asian), but there's a saying, "Money can't buy happiness, but it sure hell better crying inside my BMW than crying outside by the street."

"Money can't buy happiness, but you can distract yourself with consuming luxury goods" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. These types of quotes tire me (and ones like it, "have you ever seen anyone sad on a Jet ski?"). They ignore the very real human condition of yearning for meaning from existence. Pretending like this can be solved with symbols of status and consumption is misguided.

I think this saying illustrates the point better: “money is like toilet paper, you don’t want to run out but after a point more wont make a difference”

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#94
post #76

It could be Asian thing (I'm Asian), but there's a saying, "Money can't buy happiness, but it sure hell better crying inside my BMW than crying outside by the street."

Money can't buy happiness. But not having money will surely prevent it.

I guess it depends on the society you live in. In our ultra materialistic and capitalistic societies, most likely. But look at the proverbial amazon tribe or even nuns. I’d say most of them seem happy and yet they are poor as dirt by our standards.

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#95

- A successful life often feels like day-to-day failure. Failure to reach ambitious goals, but 90% of the goal is often good enough. - Dedicating one’s life to work is often a form of suicide. « SINCE my life is void and I won’t do anything tonight, why not study this book, apply for an MBA or build a company. At least that will be some challenge. It’s not like I’m losing family time, and it will help me focus on one…

> - Dedicating one’s life to work is often a form of suicide. « SINCE my life is void and I won’t do anything tonight, why not study this book, apply for an MBA or build a company. At least that will be some challenge. It’s not like I’m losing family time, and it will help me focus on one thing. »

I always thought that but could never quite put words on it. Thanks that’s a nice way of phrasing it.

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up some excellent points, and you are right that I most likely take most technology for granted. I would say the issues that you bring up don't have a clear "right answer", and it's all about perspective. Me and my siblings were all born thanks to c-sections. Without that, none of us would have been born and my mom would have died trying to give birth. Are we better off having been born? Can't say. Is the w…

> Are we better off having been born? Can't say. If you're not sure whether there's a point in being alive, then why do you think there's a point in not "mentally/emotionally enslaving ourselves", as you wrote in your original post? If you have no terminal values [1], there is no point in anything, and everything is meaningless. I suspect that you do value being alive [2], and your father does value his wife not havi…

You are making way too many assumptions about me and life in general. It's ok for people to have different points of views.

About not being able to say if I'm better off having been born, I don't know/remember what it was like before being born or being dead, it might be amazing, I don't know, so I can't compare. Doesn't mean I want to be dead right now. I also never said there's no point in being alive.

Why does life need any "terminal values" at all to be meaningful? Do you think there needs to be an absolute truth to it? What if someone disagrees?

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#97

- A successful life often feels like day-to-day failure. Failure to reach ambitious goals, but 90% of the goal is often good enough. - Dedicating one’s life to work is often a form of suicide. « SINCE my life is void and I won’t do anything tonight, why not study this book, apply for an MBA or build a company. At least that will be some challenge. It’s not like I’m losing family time, and it will help me focus on one…

> if most people’s lives were fulfilling, we wouldn’t see that much technological progress Which then makes you wonder: do we really need that much technological progress? I love technology, especially when it helps people lead better lives. But if we are just developing it without real purpose and mentally/emotionally enslaving ourselves to do it, then it seems self-defeating.

Yes we do, or people must die. Imagine how much energy we’d consume if people heated by outdoor fires, which was the highest tech 10-20kyears ago. Also agricultural advances are needed to feed us all.

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you do for work? Have you always done that? Have you always liked the challenge?

I work for making D the best programming language in the world. I've always been doing things like that since my first job. I've always liked the challenge, especially when people tell me I can't do that. I selected a college specifically to prepare for the kind of things I wanted to do as a career, and selected classes in the service of that. I once told my dad that I was never bored for a moment in college. Vacatio…

That's cool, thanks for sharing. I vibed with your point about being stimulated and [not checking out]. I'm relatively new to programming (5 years, self-taught) but I find the endless amount of information to learn quite appetizing and inspiring. I think I'll stick around with this stuff for a while.

Maybe I'll take a look at D now :)

Do you have any resources you'd suggest to someone (who, btw, doesn't have a systems programming background -- but is curious to learn!)

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#99
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we better off having been born? Can't say. If you're not sure whether there's a point in being alive, then why do you think there's a point in not "mentally/emotionally enslaving ourselves", as you wrote in your original post? If you have no terminal values [1], there is no point in anything, and everything is meaningless. I suspect that you do value being alive [2], and your father does value his wife not havi…

You are making way too many assumptions about me and life in general. It's ok for people to have different points of views. About not being able to say if I'm better off having been born, I don't know/remember what it was like before being born or being dead, it might be amazing, I don't know, so I can't compare. Doesn't mean I want to be dead right now. I also never said there's no point in being alive. Why does lif…

> Why does life need any "terminal values" at all to be meaningful?

Life doesn't have or need terminal values, people have terminal values. Without terminal values, you cannpt have any values at all, and without values [1] nothing can be meaningful.

> Do you think there needs to be an absolute truth to it?

No, terminal values depend on the individual, and don't even have to be constant over time.

[1] "Values" in the sense of "goals" or "things important to you", not in the sense of "moral values".

Re: Things the most successful people I know struggle with to be happy

#100
post #53

I think a lot of people in the US are taught from a young age to work hard and be the best you can be. Get into the best college, work hard to get the best job. Get promoted. Get promoted. Start your own firm. Work hard work hard, make money. Often they never learn you are allowed to back off.

> Often they never learn you are allowed to back off.

More-so fear of the long-term consequences. You do all that hard work to get to where you want to be and then if you back off, will that work be lost?

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