Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#91

Post by philistine » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

fooey wrote: post #22

draw_down wrote: post #9

I don’t have a side in this fight, but I do admire how Epic has clearly planned this out to wring every ounce of publicity and goodwill they can. I don’t find this particular measure (shutting down the accounts) particularly sinister. Epic has made it abundantly clear they don’t like the App Store’s rules and regulations. That’s fine but it means you won’t be selling on the App Store. I see this as Apple taking them…

I don't think they planned this well at all. It feels like rage fueled flailing they didn't think through. What is it going to do for Epic's cash flow if they're not allowed on any app stores for literal years while court cases filter through? What is it going to do for their game store and engine selling business to be indefinitely evicted from the Apple ecosystem entirely? Were I a company using Unreal Engine to de…

At this point in the fight, Epic has not fired its biggest cannon: announcing that Unreal Engine 5 will not support any Apple hardware.

So at this point, there is uncertainty, but no clear harm done to any developer using Unreal engine and currently targeting Mac hardware.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#92

Post by Wohlf » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:36 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #66

Despegar wrote: post #24

Epic's antitrust case against Apple is very weak, but they're well within the right to sue Apple to resolve their dispute. The developer agreement actually stipulates the venue, Northern District of California, for any lawsuits. However, Epic demonstrated particularly bad faith in how they've dealt with this matter so I'm not surprised that Apple is terminating their relationship (which they're allowed to do under th…

Yes I also believe its a lousy case, but that what courts are for, to decide things. But Apple can easily point to all the times Epic agreed to the Agreement (my employer's large legal dept always reads any changes before agreeing), to the agreements Epic is fine with from the console companies paying the same percentage but did not sue, the long history of each and every clause in the agreement in the world of contr…

I believe Epic's entire case revolves around phones being a general computing device, so they'll be using the Microsoft antitrust case law.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#93

Post by nafey » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

fooey wrote: post #22

draw_down wrote: post #9

I don’t have a side in this fight, but I do admire how Epic has clearly planned this out to wring every ounce of publicity and goodwill they can. I don’t find this particular measure (shutting down the accounts) particularly sinister. Epic has made it abundantly clear they don’t like the App Store’s rules and regulations. That’s fine but it means you won’t be selling on the App Store. I see this as Apple taking them…

I don't think they planned this well at all. It feels like rage fueled flailing they didn't think through. What is it going to do for Epic's cash flow if they're not allowed on any app stores for literal years while court cases filter through? What is it going to do for their game store and engine selling business to be indefinitely evicted from the Apple ecosystem entirely? Were I a company using Unreal Engine to de…

There is nothing here that says the companies using Unreal Engine will be affected.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#94

Post by pjmlp » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

muska3 wrote: post #36

Is it bad that I hope they do kill Epic's account? Epic launches a preconceived plan with media attacks and the most ridiculous 1984 reference that actually doesn't make sense in the current context against Apple. If I'm Apple, even if this is a straight up attack on me, I just follow the rules in my TOS and block them like I do others who don't follow the TOS. If you don't like the TOS, fine you don't have to be on…

I also want to see Epic crash and burn, this was a PR plan from the very beginning.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#95

Post by username3 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

sircastor wrote: post #64

A lot of this feels to me like Rpic thinks they’re a bigger deal than they are. No doubt they make a lot of money, and they’ve made Apple a lot of money. I think though that their attempt to take Apple in the court of Public opinion is going to fall flat, because there are a lot more iOS users than Fortnite on iOS players.

This is all PR before Epic stops selling vbucks in-app. They can’t advertise where to buy in the app.

This will get the word out that you can buy vbucks through their website.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#96

Post by Alupis » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #52

dbmikus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on Android Epic can still have users install their games via a different app store.

But Google is still extracting the same 30% if users make in-app purchases.

Only if it uses Google's built in payment system - which is what started all this (EPIC using their own).

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#97

Post by amaccuish » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

What took me aback was the withdrawing permission to notarise their apps for Mac. That was only meant to be a check for known vulnerabilities/malicious software. Apple was more within their rights to kick Fortnite until the dust has settled from the iOS store, that was the retaliation, but now a mechanism supposedly for security has been repurposed as punishment.

That's a pretty nasty move and I feel the mask has slipped slightly here for Apple.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#98

Post by jpalomaki » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #28

chrisacky wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they should. But, market dominance means agreement to such terms are not 'fair'.

Yes, total market dominance with 10% market share.

One could argue that they still have monopoly for the iOS part of the market. A bit like retail store having monopoly on certain geographic area.

Not sure what's the business model behind Apple Arcade, but it looks Apple is in a way also competing on the gaming market. From this point of view their 30% cut from competitors' sales looks a bit worse.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#99

Post by pearjuice » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

For years, people have applauded the walled garden of Apple and this is the end result. Without flamethrower you wil not get out of it. The walls have to go down. They are probably beting on that by this charade the entire industry turns against Apple and a boycott ensues, leaving them no choice to change their margins (and other marketplaces will adjust accordingly or the angry mob comes for them).

I doubt Epic stands any chance in court. Apple's case seems to be water sealed as with every ToS signed, you waive any and all of your rights away. Clearly the ToS have been violated so they seem to be in their right.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#100

Post by dbmikus » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 7:37 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #52

dbmikus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on Android Epic can still have users install their games via a different app store.

But Google is still extracting the same 30% if users make in-app purchases.

Not if you use a different payment processing infra. You are not obligated to use Google's app store or their in-app purchasing system if you install the app through a different channel.