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Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#91

Post by sukilot »

mantap wrote: post #87
mjburgess wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as a point of fact, they didnt. Their requested, "accurate" grades represent a 20% increase in general attainment. That has never happened in the history of modern education, and occurs only when, eg., civil wars end. As a comparative reference, we'd expect an at-most, 3% increase in IQ in the general population.

This is desirable and it's easy to explain why. For any student there will be a range of grades they could expect to achieve. The fairest grade to assign is the best case grade in that range (not the midpoint), because there is no evidence that they would not have studied hard and achieved that grade in the exam. If every student is given their best case grade then you will indeed see an overall rise, this simply ref…

That's only fair in an environment where education is not a scarce good. But college education needs some way to artificially pick winners because the schools are underfunded and then economy is classist.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#92

Post by sukilot »

jdietrich wrote: post #84
stoneman24 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the extent of some candidates differences and the impact to their life (denied entrance to offered Uni courses for that year) there’s some very serious outrage. If you were part of good class in a school with a poor record, then you’re stuffed. It’s a unprecedented situation and the only guide that you have are teacher grades.

>Given the extent of some candidates differences and the impact to their life (denied entrance to offered Uni courses for that year) there’s some very serious outrage. It's not as bad as you might think. A large number of students are rejecting their offers with the intention of re-applying in 2021 and there has been a substantial reduction in the number of foreign students, so there are an unprecedented number of su…

Doesn't that make next year even worse, as we'll have 1.5x applicants for the same seats?

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#93

Post by sukilot »

thom wrote: post #70
krisoft wrote: post #51

This was so foreseeable when they anounced the plans. One possible solution could have been if they do the same statistical estimation game and then offer a choice to each student: you can take your estimated grades or go for an exam. If you take the exam you get what you het there. It might go lower or higher than the estimate. This would have incentivised that only those who are certain of themselves and their esti…

The whole point is that it hasn’t been possible to sit exams.

The world is still upside down. Run exams later and start college later.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#94

Post by sukilot »

remus wrote: post #50
naruciakk wrote: post #37

Couldn't the UK just have a regular exam, just with the social distancing measures implemented? The exams were held in many European countries with these measures and nothing bad happened and the children has received a fair examination for the University

Presumably it'd be very difficult to set such an exam because pupils will have missed so much of the normal curriculum.

Why? High schoolers can read books and video chat.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#95

Post by HeavenFox »

Can someone explain to me the significance of A-level grades? If I understand Wikipedia correctly, students apply to universities using predicted grades anyways, and receive offers that are conditioned on the final grades. How about just make all offers unconditional? And if you are not going to universities, do anyone actually care about your A-level grades?

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#96

Post by jdietrich »

sukilot wrote: post #89
jdietrich wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independent schools got higher grades because of a quirk in the algorithm. If there weren't enough students taking a particular course at a particular centre for the rank/previous results method to be reasonably accurate, the algorithm defaulted to partially or wholly relying on predicted grades. Independent schools generally have fewer students and a wider range of courses and predicted grades were inflated across t…

Well, wealthy students who opt out of government secondary schools could be given lowest priority at government colleges, and if that offends someone they can expand government funded colleges so that all could attend.

>if that offends someone they can expand government funded colleges so that all could attend.

Universities in England are funded primarily by tuition fees. There are consistently more university places than applicants, but not necessarily at universities you'd want to attend.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#97

Post by jdietrich »

sukilot wrote: post #92
jdietrich wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the extent of some candidates differences and the impact to their life (denied entrance to offered Uni courses for that year) there’s some very serious outrage. It's not as bad as you might think. A large number of students are rejecting their offers with the intention of re-applying in 2021 and there has been a substantial reduction in the number of foreign students, so there are an unprecedented number of su…

Doesn't that make next year even worse, as we'll have 1.5x applicants for the same seats?

That depends very much on whether foreign student enrolment rebounds.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#98

Post by corin_ »

jarvist wrote: post #66
corin_ wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Key facts: students are always ranked and graded on a curve. Student populations have a fixed number of grades awarded every year, etc. I'm pretty sure that's not correct, please find a source suggesting that. There have been major reforms (primarily the changing A Levels back from the modular version that Labour had previously introduced) and these were specifically aimed at reducing grade inflation. If there were…

Starting with the 2010 introduction of the A* grade, the proportion of grades awarded has been almost constant (25% A/A*, 25% B, 25% C). This is in contrast to the consistent 'grade inflation' visible for the previous twenty years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation#UK_A-Level_cla...

Isn't that due to the attempted curbing of grade inflation working well? As far as I know they haven't returned to actually grading on a curve ranking like they did decades ago, in theory if next year every student somehow handed in the perfect papers they'd all get top scores.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#99

Post by corin_ »

HeavenFox wrote: post #95

Can someone explain to me the significance of A-level grades? If I understand Wikipedia correctly, students apply to universities using predicted grades anyways, and receive offers that are conditioned on the final grades. How about just make all offers unconditional? And if you are not going to universities, do anyone actually care about your A-level grades?

At least a couple of places, including one of Oxford Uni's colleges, have agreed to take anyone who was offered a conditional place, and there has been a hashtag trending on Twitter of #HonourTheOffer

I expect many more to follow, so it's possible that the universities will clear up an awful lot of that mess - but while some academics are saying yes great bring them all in, others are strongly against the idea of expanding to let more people in this year.

As to whether they're significant apart from for UCAS applications (university) - I'm not too sure. Personally I wouldn't care much about them on a CV of someone I was thinking of hiring in the best of years yet alone if I knew their results came from 2020.

But with unemployment rising fast, and much worse soon once government gradually removes support offered over the summer to keep people furloughed (companies paid to have their staff not working but kept officially on the payroll until they could get back to work), we've already heard stories in some places or a shop or a pub advertising a job offer and getting 1000+ applications... and in a terrible job market, school exam grades could likely be a decider for who gets called to interview for many working class jobs. (They already are even outside a terrible job market, that just amplifies it.)

edit: Oh, and while I don't know what proportion of people doing A Levels don't want to go to university (or want to go, but fail) - we're also a few days away from this same situation happening with the GCSE exams, which pretty much everyone legally has to do around age 16.

Re: Why did the A-level algorithm say no?

#100

Post by 082349872349872 »

jdietrich wrote: post #96
sukilot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, wealthy students who opt out of government secondary schools could be given lowest priority at government colleges, and if that offends someone they can expand government funded colleges so that all could attend.

>if that offends someone they can expand government funded colleges so that all could attend. Universities in England are funded primarily by tuition fees. There are consistently more university places than applicants, but not necessarily at universities you'd want to attend.

You are now about to witness the extent of my oxbridge[1] knowledge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McMSHqWM3G8

[1] to understand this locution it may help to understand that there is also a breakaway technical college somewhere off in the fens...

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