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"Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

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Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#91

Post by iaml »

rvz wrote: post #15

This shows that open-source in general is expensive for Mozilla but cheap for the likes of Apple, Microsoft and Google who own their own Web browsers and have other open-source programming languages maintained by some of their employees full time. The actual reality of this is that they are still kept alive by a direct competitor for decades and haven't made anything to generate significant sources of revenue. Maybe…

I don't understand why they don't just create a patreon/github sponsors/bitcoin donations for core ff/rust/mdn teams salaries and call it a day. I'm sure they'll get more than enough contributions to make it viable.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#92

Post by komali2 »

protomyth wrote: post #32

Firefox doesn't have the developer tools that Chrome does so developers use Chrome to develop with meaning their websites work better in Chrome so Firefox is playing catch-up or just plain looks worse keeping adoption of Firefox lower. Mozilla solves the problem by killing development of developer tools insuring Firefox is an afterthought. Is there anyone in Mozilla management that has a technical bone in their body?

I use firefox dev tools, but since like, 99% of the app users are on chrome, we optimize for chrome. I've never like that but that's been the reality.

Better than my last job at least which for some reason people were using ie11 and even worse to access our app.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#93

Post by foepys »

portmanteaufu wrote: post #46
stu2b50 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make 90% of their revenue from Google paying to have Google be the default web search on FF. A deal which is expiring in 2021 and hadn't yet been renewed.

The deal was renewed today[1], which makes the layoffs that much more baffling. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla...

It doesn't state the amount. Google can renew the deal and still pay 50% less.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#94

Post by Recursing »

rvz wrote: post #15

This shows that open-source in general is expensive for Mozilla but cheap for the likes of Apple, Microsoft and Google who own their own Web browsers and have other open-source programming languages maintained by some of their employees full time. The actual reality of this is that they are still kept alive by a direct competitor for decades and haven't made anything to generate significant sources of revenue. Maybe…

Apple, Microsoft, and Google:

* Forbid alternative browser engines on their platform.

* Bundle their browser in a leading operating system.

* Use their massive Web properties to drive downloads of their own browser.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#95

Post by LanceH »

kanox wrote: post #79
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " The actual reality of this is that they are still kept alive by a direct competitor for decades and haven't made anything to generate significant sources of revenue. Maybe they should turn into a Rust consultancy of some sort. I don't know. " The odds of them being able to build a business that that replaces the several hundred million they get from Google (which is essentially pure profit, not even revenue) are…

> The instant Google decides they're no longer useful, Mozilla is going to go poof. People keep repeating this but couldn't Bing replace Google as the default? The "default search engine" position is actually worth money.

If they drop from 2 bidders to 1 it becomes a lot less valuable.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#96

Post by atoav »

lucasmullens wrote: post #41
protomyth wrote: post #32

Firefox doesn't have the developer tools that Chrome does so developers use Chrome to develop with meaning their websites work better in Chrome so Firefox is playing catch-up or just plain looks worse keeping adoption of Firefox lower. Mozilla solves the problem by killing development of developer tools insuring Firefox is an afterthought. Is there anyone in Mozilla management that has a technical bone in their body?

I'm sure management understands those teams are important. Who should they have cut instead? These are hard decisions. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that management doesn't understand tech, they obviously do, it's Mozilla.

As somebody who worked in the university field for a while I can tell you one thing: bureaucrats will cut anything before even considering cutting bureaucracy. Just like that managers will cut anything before they will cut in the management department (unless it is a political move to gain more power).

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#99

Post by the_duke »

mvn9 wrote: post #86
portmanteaufu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deal was renewed today[1], which makes the layoffs that much more baffling. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrycollins/2020/08/13/mozilla...

Then it was a negotiation tactic. Mozilla showed that they don't desperately need the money because they are willing to cut all expenses. Thus, Google can't play the 'take whatever we offer or you will be bankrupt in 2021'-card. Firing the developers should have led to a better deal and they can now silently rehire them back.

Google doesn't need the search engine placement in Firefox. The market share is tiny. (sadly)

I can imagine that Google is somewhat interested in keeping Firefox alive as an independent browser though, just to ward off monopoly issues.

Yes, there are plenty of Chromium reskins, but Firefox is the only other remaining full, cross-platform browser engine.

Re: "Much" of the Rust/Wasmtime team hit by layoffs at Mozilla

#100

Post by foepys »

x0x0 wrote: post #45
kryptiskt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a donation. They pay for being the default search. They throw billions at Apple for the same, but nobody paints that as charity.

It's increasingly a charitable donation / obfuscation of their browser monopoly status since Mozilla has lost most of their leverage: Mozilla's marketshare has shrunk, and Google faces less and less competition for search. Why would Google pay for something they get for free, much less pay half a billion dollars. See the public numbers here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation under Combined income of Mo…

> Why would Google pay for something they get for free

For the same reason Microsoft saved Apple: to prevent anti-trust inquiries

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