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A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

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Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#91
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint to that is the fact we know about these issues and can talk about them freely. In a country on the opposite side of the spectrum, doing that lands you in secret jail.

Is really your best excuse that there are countries that are worse?

No, I'm just pointing out that there is a real difference between places where there is a free press and places where there is not and the state is empowered to clamp down on ideas it doesn't like.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#92
post #81
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You write like there are dangers that the US might forget or lose their values, like innocent until proven guilty or that everybody is created equal. The US has never lived up to those. Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp (I hope no one forgot about that one) or all the tragic events that ignited the BLM movement are just current examples.

As someone coming from a region that suffered lots of US interference: The US is the world’s last hope to have full peace, open trade and modern value/societies. Woman did not have rights in most of the world because they wanted to. But because the US pressured them to.

>Woman did not have rights in most of the world because they wanted to. But because the US pressured them to.

The US has never had a female leader and has never really been the vanguard of women's rights -- interesting that you should choose to ascribe all such success to the US. Womens suffrage was established in nearly 100 countries before the US.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#93
post #22

On this historic day (exactly 75 years to the day since the August 9 1945 atomic bombing of Nagasaki) we should take a moment to understand more about our shared history. > But he was also behind the internment of more than 100,000 Japanese Americans because, as Mr Stimson put it, "their racial characteristics are such that we cannot understand or trust even the citizen Japanese". The internment of Japanese-Americans…

You write like there are dangers that the US might forget or lose their values, like innocent until proven guilty or that everybody is created equal. The US has never lived up to those. Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp (I hope no one forgot about that one) or all the tragic events that ignited the BLM movement are just current examples.

There's a big difference between widespread disregard for fundamental human rights and the government trying to offshore it and keep it on the down low.

Equating the two like so many people love doing is necessary step if you want to transition from the latter to the former.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#94
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> until one realizes that the atomic bomb murdered more civilians that a conventional attack would have killed The conventional bombings on Tokyo killed more people than any atomic bomb.

> The conventional bombings on Tokyo killed more people than any atomic bomb. Tokyo had at the time a population of 1.1 million and 90,000 to 100,000 dead on the bombing of March 10th 1945. Hiroshima had at the time a population of 255,000 and 66,000 dead caused by the atomic bomb. You are right. It would have been way worse if the USA has attacked a more populated area. The situations is no less horrific because it.

Speculation. Hiroshima was choosen to demonstrate the max destructive power. If tokyo would have been a better candidate, they probably would have gone with it.

And Tokyo is not a city, but a region. It has naturally more population because of it's far bigger area. Whether population at the time was also denser than in hiroshima back then, do you have data for this?

Anyway, the point is that it doesn't matter which tool you use. The death toll depends more on the effort and will you put in, than on the bomb you use.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty absurd take. I mean, of course the bombing wouldn't have stopped if there was no surrender...considering that was the whole point of using nuclear bombs in the first place. I can't understand how 2 nuclear bombs can be considered to be worse than the millions of deaths a land invasion of Japan would have led to. I absolutely understand why the Americans weren't willing to risk a conventional land war…

Let's see if the history turns around and another state(i.e China) saves millions of lives in a potential invasion of the USA

Yes, and they both would nuke each other to oblivion if that happens. Thankfully, the US provably won't try to attack China in a genocidial attempt to conquer half of asia for itself.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#96

I grew up with a cold war era US-centric understanding of why Hiroshima and Nagasaki had to happen. I get those arguments, Later I was taught a very different, also compelling, rationale for Nagazaki from a Japanese perspective. I get that argument, too. I'm USian, so of course I like any argument that puts the US on the right side of history. But as that moment gets more and more into the past, and we lose the conte…

I, like you, learned all the rationalizations that got to be written in history by the victor. The point at which most of it started to unravel for me was when I learned that the United States had a whole spate of atomic bombs they were scheduling to drop if Imperial Japan didn't surrender. We think of it as two because that's all the further we got, but if things had gone a little differently it would have been six,…

>A willingness to cause that kind of unprecedented basically indiscriminate devastation, well it forced me to look at the events that actually did happen through a very different lens.

I think you need to spend some quality time going over pictures and statistics from cities like Volgograd and Berlin. The destruction was by no means unprecedented and the death toll among the locals was on the same order as what you'd expect from fighting over the city. The low cost to the attackers was what was unprecedented.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#97
post #58
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you understand how bad the coronavirus situation is here. People's kids aren't going to be able to go to school in person this fall. Short of the outbreak of WW3 I can't imagine the pandemic not being the top issue.

That's mostly due to teaching unions. The risk to children from Corona virus is vanishingly small. https://medium.com/wintoncentre/what-have-been-the-fatal-ris...

Viruses spread. It’s not just the children we’re worried about.

Ask Israel how opening schools worked for them.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#98
post #40

One less known fact is that one of the advisors to US army back in WWII is Dr Liang Sicheng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liang_Sicheng . He is the father of modern Chinese architecture. He recommended that the Americans military authorities spare the ancient Japanese cities of Kyoto and Nara. He married with another legend Lin Huiyin, whose niece Maya Lin later designed Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington DC. ht…

The fact this claim has been at the top of this Hacker News thread for hours piqued my interest. So I did some research. I read the New York Times "Overlooked" obituary for Dr Liang Sicheng but found no reference to this event. [1]. The closest thing I could find was [2] which writes the following (and links to a currently-unavailable article hosted on the government of China mouthpiece China Daily): > During World W…

> I am happy to be convinced if independent historians believe Liang Sicheng had a part to play in the decision, but right now this claim feels like highly-upvoted CCP propaganda.

Even for HN this is ridiculously paranoid.

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#99
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CCP isn't a tremendously controversial issue in the US (the consensus against it is strong and bipartisan), so it's hard to see how it could become the central issue of the election.

“Disapprove” vs. “go to war with”

Is there a single political figure in Washington arguing for war with the Chinese?

Re: A man who saved Kyoto from the atomic bomb (2015)

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact this claim has been at the top of this Hacker News thread for hours piqued my interest. So I did some research. I read the New York Times "Overlooked" obituary for Dr Liang Sicheng but found no reference to this event. [1]. The closest thing I could find was [2] which writes the following (and links to a currently-unavailable article hosted on the government of China mouthpiece China Daily): > During World W…

> I am happy to be convinced if independent historians believe Liang Sicheng had a part to play in the decision, but right now this claim feels like highly-upvoted CCP propaganda. Even for HN this is ridiculously paranoid.

You have to be very naive to think that there are corners on the internet with more than a thousand users that do not have the presence of every superpower. What do you think they’re spending their resources on?
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