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ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

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Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#91

Post by cfontes »

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money.

Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it.

I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as well (Oculus quest being the most beloved one) so I understand, I just hate the consumerism that this type of item needs to survive, phones being the prime example of this, but a good keyboard ($100 range maybe) is probably marginally worst at it's task than this thing is.

Again, don't take it as a personal offence.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#92

Post by nextos »

tom_ wrote: post #76

I wish people would just copy the MS Natural Ergonomic 4000, but with better keyswitches. As things stand, every split keyboard with nice keyswitches has a different layout from every other, which is odd, considering how much this type of device relies on muscle memory to work. (Also, most of them miss one or more of F keys, symmetrical meta keys, standard navigation cluster layout, volume buttons - it's like they wa…

I love mechanical keyboards. My favorite switch is ALPS.

But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. They increase my typing speed, reduce latency and make long sessions effortless.

Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market.

For a simple, readily available option, I find the Apple Magic Keyboard more than good enough. It has really low latency [1]. I wonder if other low-travel switches are the same or if it has a particularly speedy firmware.

[1] https://danluu.com/keyboard-latency/

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#93

Post by striking »

cfontes wrote: post #91

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money. Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it. I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as wel…

A keyboard is a tool, and for people who type on theirs 40+ hours a week, a couple hundred here or there is a rounding error at the end of the year.

I bought a ZSA keyboard (not this one) due to otherwise having to type on a crappy butterfly keyboard on a laptop provided by work (when my E key started repeating, I knew I was over it). I could've bought some sort of crappy rubber dome thing, but I didn't. And I'm very happy with my purchase.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#94

Post by SloopJon »

rkagerer wrote: post #6

Neat! If you're interested in this kind of thing, I recommend also checking out the Kinesis Advantage.

I used a Kinesis Advantage for a few years before switching to the Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB.

My main complaint about the Advantage is that I kept hitting the arrow buttons in the bottom row unintentionally. Partly poor typing form, I'm sure, and of course I could have remapped them.

The other thing is that the Advantage is tall, so it's not great up on a desk, and it's not that comfortable on your lap. I think it's best in a tray, although some trays may not be tall enough for it.

As for the Freestyle, I like the split design, the customizable layout, and the customizable lighting (I have a different color for QWERTY and Dvorak). Add a couple of USB ports, and it would be nearly perfect. The "6" key is on the wrong half, and I might experiment with a layout that isn't staggered typewriter style.

I do tend to fidget with the position of the Freestyle throughout the day. This is another keyboard that might work better in a tray.

I don't know if I'd call this Moonlander "next generation," but it's an intriguing combination of what I like in the Advantage and Freestyle.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#95

Post by cfontes »

striking wrote: post #93
cfontes wrote: post #91

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money. Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it. I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as wel…

A keyboard is a tool, and for people who type on theirs 40+ hours a week, a couple hundred here or there is a rounding error at the end of the year. I bought a ZSA keyboard (not this one) due to otherwise having to type on a crappy butterfly keyboard on a laptop provided by work (when my E key started repeating, I knew I was over it). I could've bought some sort of crappy rubber dome thing, but I didn't. And I'm very…

I am among those people, 2 programming jobs, 12 hours a day typing non stop, for 15 years so far. I am probably super lucky but have never had an issue on my wrists and have used every single shitty keyboard you can think of.

I love an ergonomic keyboard, but it costs 50 dollars maybe? This is not that, this is something else.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#97

Post by Symbiote »

nandkeypull wrote: post #82

For similar ergonomic keyboards (mostly DIY), there's of course a GitHub awesome list: https://github.com/pvinis/awesome-split-keyboards . My personal favorite is the Lily58: https://old.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/d9g3qe... . It avoids having a preposterous number of thumb keys and has a number row. And the OLEDs are a nice touch.

I recently forked the "awesome" list as it seemed a bit abandoned, but I haven't added anything to it just yet.

https://aposymbiont.github.io/awesome-split-keyboards/

(If anyone actually enjoys writing JavaScript, or can do it in their sleep, feel free to take over. I'm 95% a backend dev, so I was just aiming for something easy to maintain, ideally generated from something like a CSV file. The intention is to link to it from Reddit's /s/ErgoMechKeyboards.)

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#98

Post by anctualprzn »

kelp wrote: post #66

I badly want this, but with Topre keys. I have a couple of Topre FC660Cs and absolutely love the feel, durability and quality of the keyboard. A split would be really nice though.

I'm with you. I have the FC660C. Loved the feel and sound, but the tiny form caused my RSI, which prompted me to buy an ErgoDox EZ. Had to go back to Cherry switches, but I would love some CYO Topre switches to throw in there. I wish there was a bigger market for CYO switches, but I haven't found anywhere to get them.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#99

Post by tnorthcutt »

tetris11 wrote: post #46
me_me_me wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shoveling in expensive ergonomic equipment is little different from shoes or bags or guns or radios or funko pops. It is and it isn't. It depends if/when you stop. I just got $250 keyboard. My last one was also in that range. Though it lasted me around 10 years. I don't think its evil wanting to have nice things. Its problem when 'you life to buy things, not buy things to live.'

I have never spent more than 30 € on a keyboard and mouse combo, and that's over the span of the last 10 years... I have never peeked over the price wall into the higher end stuff because it genuinely has never occurred to me that my current keyboard+mouse were hindering my productivity. High contrast screen? Sure, squinting hurts. Office-cancelling headphones? Sure, loud noises ruin my concentration But keyboard and…

I bought a keyboard.io model 01 recently, because I was desperate (and I'd been intrigued by its programmability for a while). I bought a vertical mouse (cheap Anker) at the same time.

I've had RSI issues in the past, but this spring (when I bought those two), I was in intense pain for days at a time, even when not at my desk. Otherwise good ergonomic setup: external monitor, adjustable desk and good chair, etc.

I'd suggest you at least take small steps to improve/optimize your ergonomics before you have a problem. It really does suck to be in pain like that, especially when doing your work, which you have to do to pay the bills, makes it worse. I was looking forward to weekends just for some relief.

For what it's worth, having a programmable keyboard is super cool even without the ergonomic benefits. It's just fun to tinker and optimize your layout, macros, etc.

Re: ZSA Moonlander: A next-generation ergonomic keyboard

#100

Post by wdgz »

cfontes wrote: post #91

I swear I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's insane that people pay this much for a keyboard, mouse, headphone, an so on. You can literally feed a family for a whole year in some countries with this money. Good ergonomics are awesome, macros are cool, but this is like a Channel Bag for nerds, if you like it awesome but don't deceive yourself into needing it. I love tech as everyone in here, I like my gizmos as wel…

I used to think the same way as you. Then I got RSI and the only thing I can type on now without excruciating pain is my $250+ ergonomic keyboard. The other day I typed a short password on my Corsair gaming keyboard (standard layout, full size) and I literally sprained my left wrist immediately.

Honestly, after how much money I’ve spent trying to deal with my RSI (doctors, exams, physical therapy, home workout items and programs) the 250 is nothing for something that isn’t exacerbating my injury and in fact reducing inflammation enough that things are finally healing.

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