Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is interesting. Can you point me to anything that will expand on/help me understand this?
I don't know of any good sources. But my understanding is that there are very few "Methuselah bonds" by which it is meant instruments that have lifespans of 50 years or more. So anybody with a profit motive has no advantage for putting money into something that would have a longer term focus. This explains to me why, for example, banks are still loaning money for buildings on Miami Beach. I would love to understand t…
Low-Background Steel
91–100 of 114 posts
Re: Low-Background Steel
#92This comes up on HN every now and then, it is how I learned about low background steel. If this is new to you, you may also enjoy reading about the cesium content of wine: https://www.technologyreview.com/2018/07/19/141390/fukushima...
Is there a particular trigger for this post? Is this a case of someone stumbling into the concept and wanting to share it with the world? Is there some trend in SV around low-background steel right now? Genuinely curious about the phenomenon of posts around topics that have a great deal of understanding and aren’t necessarily trending in the general news cycle.
Re: Low-Background Steel
#93Since tabacco gets its cancer making polonium from the air, I wonder if smoking got riskier because of the nuklear testing.
Do you have more information on this? Seems interesting!
Re: Low-Background Steel
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know of any good sources. But my understanding is that there are very few "Methuselah bonds" by which it is meant instruments that have lifespans of 50 years or more. So anybody with a profit motive has no advantage for putting money into something that would have a longer term focus. This explains to me why, for example, banks are still loaning money for buildings on Miami Beach. I would love to understand t…
Dykes are cheap.
Dikes will not protect property in Florida. Our buildings are sitting on top of porous limestone.
Re: Low-Background Steel
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Extremely difficult to separate different molecules that differ by only the weight of a single neutron.
They are using Oxygen, Oxygen can't become radioactive for longer than a few seconds anyway. All they need to do is filter for pure oxygen, nitrogen is fine as well. It's really just CO2 that's the problem.
But furthermore, it's not radioactive oxygen isotopes that get into the steel in the first place - they're scant to non-existent in nature, since all three common isotopes of oxygen are stable and most of the rest decay in seconds. It's other radioactive isotopes in the air from the bomb tests.
99+% isn't 100%, and it turns out those tiny fractions of a percent of junk contain the isotopes that are the real problem, namely Cobalt-60 created by the nuclear tests. Carbon-14 isn't nearly as big of a problem, since its decay mode is just beta and can be designed around, but the gamma decay from Cobalt-60 contamination is much harder to deal with.
Furthermore, because of Cobalt's position on the periodic table and the desire to have a small amount of cobalt in steel anyways to give it better working properties, it's not something that's easily filtered out, even in processes that reform steel like vacuum remelting which exist to make mechanically harder and better quality steel by slow melting and recrystalization. Once the Cobalt's in there, it's in there - you just have to wait for it to decay.
As it turns out, we're in luck, most of the fallout from those bomb tests has passed through numerous half-lives and is much less of a problem today than it was in the 1980s and 1990s when the low background stuff became such a hot commodity. So it doesn't really matter as much that we're running out. Furthermore, oxygen separation technologies and cryogenic liquid handling have improved, so we can do an even better job keeping contamination out. If someone wanted to set up a low background mill, they probably could do it today with commodity molecular sieves and centrifugation of the oxygen rejecting all but the light fraction...
Re: Low-Background Steel
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's always confused me how mined lead somehow has more radioactivity. Shouldn't the lead in the ground also have decayed over time? Also, it makes me wonder why someone enterprising hasn't stockpiled a few tons of the stuff somewhere to let it become low background lead for the future. You'd think that some government or another would be able to drop a million dollars on putting a lead stockpile somewhere safe for t…
What would be the timeframe over which one would make a profit? Our global financial system is based on the 30 year U.S. Treasury bond. There are no economic incentives to plan beyond 30 years.
The US sorta has a few things like that already--the oil reserve & the stockpile of helium, though I understand the latter is winding down still. Given the importance of those materials to science, I would think that there might be some scientifically-motivated project to protect our access to such things.
Re: Low-Background Steel
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
And here https://physicsworld.com/a/ancient-romans-join-neutrino-hunt... I had some low radiation lead for a while, makes for an interesting curio. As I recall its providence was re-melted musket balls from a shipwreck in the Bahamas.
nit: provenance
Re: Low-Background Steel
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
How do you suggest filtering by isotope?
As others said, simply separating the CO2 away would mostly get rid of the problem - all non-stable isotopes of Oxygen have a max half life of 122 seconds, but, for the record, isotopic separation is easy when there is a very large difference in atomic weight. In Uranium's case it's difficult because it's 235/238 = 1.28% (actually way worse - Uranium hexafluoride is used, which adds 114 units, bringing the ratio down…
Re: Low-Background Steel
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not valuable enough to bother.
So salvage it from sunken ships is cheaper then?
Re: Low-Background Steel
#100The scene of the battle of Midway would also hold a hoard of nice steel (the Japanese lost a lot of ships including aircraft carriers). I understand that Scapa Flow has been heavily salvaged with only 7 out of 52 ships still down there.
Yeah but there are issues with disturbing a grave site. A lot of people don't take kindly to that, especially when it's a military grave. Scuttled ships, well in theory anyways, shouldn't have had anyone on board.