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Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

theregister.com

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Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#91

Post by morpheuskafka »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #8
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

That's why: " What does a factory reset entail?" is a fascinating question. Everyone assumes you'll lose your settings during a factory reset, but what isn't as clear cut: Does it revert the firmware to whatever it was shipped with (bugs and all)? Some vendors do, but most vendors do not. A legitimate factory reset (inc. firmware) mechanism or USB boot/reflash would have likely saved Samsung considerable amounts of m…

I like the way you can erase and recover a Mac to a fresh install of MacOS, without needing a USB key or another working Mac. As long as you have an unmetered internet connection, you can recover to the same version of MacOS that shipped with the device.

So long as Apple chooses to make that version available for download.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#92

Post by grishka »

dogma1138 wrote: post #18
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

That's why: " What does a factory reset entail?" is a fascinating question. Everyone assumes you'll lose your settings during a factory reset, but what isn't as clear cut: Does it revert the firmware to whatever it was shipped with (bugs and all)? Some vendors do, but most vendors do not. A legitimate factory reset (inc. firmware) mechanism or USB boot/reflash would have likely saved Samsung considerable amounts of m…

It really depends how these things are setup. Factory resetes that reset the EEPROM basically usually means that the hardcoded values form the ROM/Firmware will be used on the next boot. However you usually have another tier today which is flash storage which isn’t a mechanism that can be easily reset with a “factory reset” because it involves a file system. If the bad config files are on the flash you need a factory…

That's how factory reset works on Android — it simply erases the entire /data partition, which is the only one normally mounted read-write. Recovery might subsequently initialize an empty file system there, but bootloader certainly does not. (you're usually able to do a wipe from both)

The OS itself then initializes it all from scratch on the first boot.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#93

Post by dylan604 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #65
userbinator wrote: post #54

One thing you have to understand is that these internet-connected Blu-ray players in question are programmed to log their activities and send copies of this information to Samsung. In some ways, this is even more disturbing than the bricking. Only corporate greed can create a media player that watches you and needs constant firmware updates. I have a VCR and DVD player which still work, and things like this are the r…

It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what you're watching regardless of source (DVD, over the air, streaming app, etc). They even detect commercials, and which language you're listening to. https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g...

How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. They continue to make money off of you long after the initial sale. I'm surprised they just don't give them away (except it would probably raise too many questions).

Your digital cable boxes have been doing this for even longer.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#94

Post by virtue3 »

Johnny555 wrote: post #65
userbinator wrote: post #54

One thing you have to understand is that these internet-connected Blu-ray players in question are programmed to log their activities and send copies of this information to Samsung. In some ways, this is even more disturbing than the bricking. Only corporate greed can create a media player that watches you and needs constant firmware updates. I have a VCR and DVD player which still work, and things like this are the r…

It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what you're watching regardless of source (DVD, over the air, streaming app, etc). They even detect commercials, and which language you're listening to. https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g...

I worked for a company that used ACR to put interactive ads on your TV when the ad that it went with came on.

I pressed the meta data company manager we were working with about how they could make such accurate predictions about who was viewing based off just zip code and the content and he replied with "you would be amazed at what people will tell you about themselves for 5$ off netflix".

My productivity dropped and I had a hard time coming into work after that. (This was around the Snowden era).

LG got busted shortly after for not actually stopping the screen grabbing once a second and uploading it to a server even if you turned the option off in the UK. Not surprised.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#95

Post by gruez »

phildenhoff wrote: post #77
gruez wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think that's the only reasonable thing to do. But that'd also mean you need double the flash capacity, which drives up the BOM cost.

Not necessarily. I worked on the team the managed the OS for an embedded hardware project (radio equipment) and our disk was partitioned four ways: 1. current operating system 2. previous operating system (and next, on upgrade) 3. data partition, shared across both current and previous OS 4. factory reset partition That means if we needed to do a factory reset we could just load the firmware archive from the fourth p…

That might be feasible for high margin products, but definitely not for consumer products. Case in point: enthusiast motherboards (as in, not the ones used for prebuilts) cheaping out and using 16MB ROM rather than 32MB, forcing them to remove features to accomdiate extra code needed to support new CPUs

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#96

Post by neilparikh »

Symbiote wrote: post #48
tpmx wrote: post #21

I think the best approach is to never, ever connect a device like a TV, Blu-ray player, etc to the internet. That's the only way they'll survive. So far no HDMI-based attacks. Hotglue the ethernet port?

At least TVs on the (originally) European DVB broadcast system can pick up firmware from broadcasts. Packets in the transport stream include the necessary firmware.

Is there anywhere I can read more about the technical details behind this? It sounds pretty interesting.

I searched for "DVB firmware", but didn't find much.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#97

Post by jentist_retol »

userbinator wrote: post #83
dastx wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> needs constant firmware updates Firmware updates are good. They can patch security issues and they can improve different aspects of the device. The security being the best plus obviously. Wholeheartedly agree that there is no reason for a company like Samsung to track your every move despite you paying them hundreds for said devive. I'd be very surprised if they don't make a hefty profit from such devices. So why t…

Firmware updates are good. They can patch security issues and they can improve different aspects of the device. The security being the best plus obviously. The point is that there are no "security issues" in a dumb media player like the DVD player I have. Suppose an "attacker" (and that is stretching the definition a lot...) can create a disc that can overflow a buffer somewhere and crash the player or cause it to do…

>there are no "security issues" in a dumb media player

There is also no Netflix playback, which is a very common use case for consumers.

BTW, the internet connection can be used for key revocation as a way to combat piracy and consumer choice. So, it's "worse" than "just" tracking.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#98

Post by Nextgrid »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #26
rootsudo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty horrid way. It used to be a time where you could just run a recovery partition to reinstall your operating system outside of re partitioning your hard drive.

I've seen non-Mac laptops ship with a recovery partition but: 1. The recovery partition takes up some space, and 2. You (or malware) can mess up the recovery partition, and 3. The recovery partition doesn't exist if just upgraded the storage (e.g. replace the HDD with an SSD). Macbooks have other failings (e.g. increasingly hard to upgrade/replace hardware yourself) but the operating system recovery works better than…

The recovery partition on non-Mac laptops typically comes with preinstalled crapware too, making it worse than getting a vanilla Windows DVD.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#99

Post by godzillabrennus »

dylan604 wrote: post #93
Johnny555 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what you're watching regardless of source (DVD, over the air, streaming app, etc). They even detect commercials, and which language you're listening to. https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g...

How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. They continue to make money off of you long after the initial sale. I'm surprised they just don't give them away (except it would probably raise too many questions). Your digital cable boxes have been doing this for even longer.

Yup.

I bought a 75” 4K TV with HDR for $750 recently. I paid that much for my first 15” LCD computer monitor.

If I connect it to the internet I know it’s spying on me.

Re: Samsung Blu-ray players bricked because of an XML config file

#100

Post by megablast »

dylan604 wrote: post #93
Johnny555 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse than you think - it's not just your DVD player that's spying on you, but your TV is too -- many TV's use Automated Content Recognition to detect what you're watching regardless of source (DVD, over the air, streaming app, etc). They even detect commercials, and which language you're listening to. https://www.adexchanger.com/ad-exchange-news/the-marketers-g...

How do you think manufactures can afford to sell these large screens at such cheap prices. They continue to make money off of you long after the initial sale. I'm surprised they just don't give them away (except it would probably raise too many questions). Your digital cable boxes have been doing this for even longer.

They aren't getting much back from selling the data. Maybe $20 off.
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