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Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

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Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he even give that up to go to Uber (let alone risk criminal charges)? Was he somehow under the impression that he would hit 10 figures at Uber? Why does any single person even need that much money to begin with? Give me 9 figures (or even 7), and I will call it a day. I'm really trying to understand his individual rationalization here.

Money isn't everything, especially when you already have lots of it. People are willing to go to great lengths when they feel they're being marginalized. On January 7, 2016, Levandowski emailed Larry Page with a plea: “Chauffeur is broken,” he wrote, according to a document revealed during the civil suit. “We’re losing our tech advantage fast.” He offered to start a separate self-driving effort within Google but was…

Reminder, the "tech advantage" that Anthony Levandowski wanted was a complete lack of restraints and safety protocols, an attitude that would later get a pedestrian killed through Uber's self-driving project.

> The car went onto a freeway, where it travelled past an on-ramp. According to people with knowledge of events that day, the Prius accidentally boxed in another vehicle, a Camry. A human driver could easily have handled the situation by slowing down and letting the Camry merge into traffic, but Google’s software wasn’t prepared for this scenario. The cars continued speeding down the freeway side by side. The Camry’s driver jerked his car onto the right shoulder. Then, apparently trying to avoid a guardrail, he veered to the left; the Camry pinwheeled across the freeway and into the median. Levandowski, who was acting as the safety driver, swerved hard to avoid colliding with the Camry, causing Taylor to injure his spine so severely that he eventually required multiple surgeries.

> The Prius regained control and turned a corner on the freeway, leaving the Camry behind. Levandowski and Taylor didn’t know how badly damaged the Camry was. They didn’t go back to check on the other driver or to see if anyone else had been hurt. Neither they nor other Google executives made inquiries with the authorities. The police were not informed that a self-driving algorithm had contributed to the accident.

> Levandowski, rather than being cowed by the incident, later defended it as an invaluable source of data, an opportunity to learn how to avoid similar mistakes. He sent colleagues an e-mail with video of the near-collision. ... He remained in his leadership role and continued taking cars on non-official routes.

From https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#92
post #64
post #28

While I don't think Levandowski is a good guy (he did take a bunch of files, even if I think it's unlikely they were used in any real way), I think the way Google pursued him hinders skilled individuals from switching between companies and spreading innovation. Here's an excerpt from a New Yorker article about the case: > The judge, William Alsup, quickly tired of such distractions. “Despite the excellent quality of…

The dude stole all the IP. He literally downloaded it all on purpose the day before he left. And took his team with him. And had a meeting with the head of Uber (a rival) the day before he left, to plan his de-facto selling of the Google self driving car project (which he did not own but which he could basically duplicate with stolen IP and poached people). If you or I did any of those things we'd have been crucified…

Umm Google steals IP from the little girl/guy innovators (one example of many seen here on HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18566929).

Google and every Silicon Valley company provide bonuses to employees for creating patents(they do not verify if it's your actual work just patent away and bonuses are given). Thus and to me This dude is just doing what he saw while at Google and what it's culture (including Silicon Valley's) taught him.

Google going full force after him isn't surprising yet the hypocrisy of it all is disgusting!

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#93
post #28

While I don't think Levandowski is a good guy (he did take a bunch of files, even if I think it's unlikely they were used in any real way), I think the way Google pursued him hinders skilled individuals from switching between companies and spreading innovation. Here's an excerpt from a New Yorker article about the case: > The judge, William Alsup, quickly tired of such distractions. “Despite the excellent quality of…

This guy literally committed a federal crime. I worked for Google and we saw this scum as a traitor.

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he even give that up to go to Uber (let alone risk criminal charges)? Was he somehow under the impression that he would hit 10 figures at Uber? Why does any single person even need that much money to begin with? Give me 9 figures (or even 7), and I will call it a day. I'm really trying to understand his individual rationalization here.

He actually planned to create a church of AI named "Way Of The Future" following the model of Scientology, and have all AI professionals potential members benefit from certain american church tax exemptions - "The documents state that WOTF’s activities will focus on “the realization, acceptance, and worship of a Godhead based on Artificial Intelligence (AI) developed through computer hardware and software.” That incl…

How hasn’t this been covered more widely? This is nuts!

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#95
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard anyone associate Silicon Valley with integrity and decency (pursuing startup endeavors). Not saying they aren't, I just never really heard it explicitly said so. Is this a common self perception within that region? What makes it so? Beyond a baseline of that most people consider themselves having integrity and decency.

Investors routinely entrust entrepreneurs with millions of dollars, after only some relatively-light due diligence. You'll meet for coffee first, then dinner, if you hit it off then more conversations, and eventually a term sheet. The investor doesn't ask for source code or technical documents, or subject the entrepreneurs to a rigorous examination to make sure it's not a scam. It's all based largely on trust .

I do not think that investors do not do background checks between coffee, dinner and more conversations.

On contrary, I do think that you put too much trust on trust.

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he even give that up to go to Uber (let alone risk criminal charges)? Was he somehow under the impression that he would hit 10 figures at Uber? Why does any single person even need that much money to begin with? Give me 9 figures (or even 7), and I will call it a day. I'm really trying to understand his individual rationalization here.

He actually planned to create a church of AI named "Way Of The Future" following the model of Scientology, and have all AI professionals potential members benefit from certain american church tax exemptions - "The documents state that WOTF’s activities will focus on “the realization, acceptance, and worship of a Godhead based on Artificial Intelligence (AI) developed through computer hardware and software.” That incl…

WOTF is just a very creative end run around zip Theft law by trying to shelter it in 1A constitutionally protected activities.

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#97

This is an interesting claim. It basically says that Uber knew about Levandowski's crimes when they agreed to indemnify him against claims brought by Google. Given the way Uber seems to work, this wouldn't surprise me at all. There seems to be a lot of bullshit in this claim, but that specific piece wouldn't surprise me. Mostly unrelatedly, this part seems particularly shitty: > In fact, Uber had considered acquiring…

That is related, and the Tyto thing is arguably not shitty in the context of this case, given Leandowski's improper affiliation with Tyto while he was at Google was one of the pieces of the case. It's hard to say they got cheated or something when he basically controlled both companies.

> Specifically, Uber was aware that Mr. Levandowski had facilitated the relationship between Tyto’s founder and its investor, a holding company managed by Mr. Stojanovski that invested funds provided by two irrevocable trusts formed for the benefit of Mr. Levandowski’s children, and would visit Tyto and his friends at that company to talk about technical and business matters from time to time. Uber was also aware of Pierre Droz’ (a Google employee) allegations that Mr. Levandowski was involved with Tyto and even deposed him extensively on that very topic during the Waymo litigation.

Part of Google's claims (rightly, imo, though ianal) was that Levandowski had a stake or outright controlled Tyto while he was at Google and before he had even formed Otto.

Just before your quoted section shows how shady the whole thing was.

>Uber’s claims were false. Uber accepted Mr. Levandowski’s tender of indemnity only after Google’s commencement of the arbitration proceeding alleging claims relating to Tyto and only after Mr. Levandowski had been interviewed by Uber extensively about Google’s allegations relating to Tyto. In addition, Mr. Levandowski’s devices given to Stroz had extensive information about Tyto on them. And Stroz had specifically identified other materials on Mr. Levandowski’s devices that he had not disclosed during interviews.

This is basically Uber saying (among other things) "yeah, we didn't know you were connected to Odin Wave/Tyto that Google is making claims about, that's outside the indemnity agreement."

And his response is "Oh no, you totally knew"

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#98
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money isn't everything, especially when you already have lots of it. People are willing to go to great lengths when they feel they're being marginalized. On January 7, 2016, Levandowski emailed Larry Page with a plea: “Chauffeur is broken,” he wrote, according to a document revealed during the civil suit. “We’re losing our tech advantage fast.” He offered to start a separate self-driving effort within Google but was…

Reminder, the "tech advantage" that Anthony Levandowski wanted was a complete lack of restraints and safety protocols, an attitude that would later get a pedestrian killed through Uber's self-driving project. > The car went onto a freeway, where it travelled past an on-ramp. According to people with knowledge of events that day, the Prius accidentally boxed in another vehicle, a Camry. A human driver could easily hav…

It's not clear that Levandowski has anything to do with Uber killing Elaine Herzberg. Specifically, the chapter 11 filing in this post says that Levandowski had very little to do with Uber's software. (Which TBH means that he had a very small role there.) And he was fired from Uber almost a year before Herzberg's killing, so we can't hold him accountable for their testing protocols.

Here's a quote from the chapter 11 filing:

In addition, to the extent that any trade secrets were taken and used at Uber, those trade secrets did not come from Mr. Levandowski, but rather a different former Google employee. Indeed, as admitted in Uber’s public statements, Uber’s self-driving software—an area that Mr. Levandowski did not work on at Google or Uber—contained problematic functions that will require it to enter into a license agreement with Waymo for use of Waymo’s intellectual property. Upon information and belief, the Waymo Settlement, entered into after discovery of possible misconduct relating to Uber’s source code, settled issues relating to theft of trade secrets by individuals who are not Mr. Levandowski.

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#99
post #87

This is an interesting claim. It basically says that Uber knew about Levandowski's crimes when they agreed to indemnify him against claims brought by Google. Given the way Uber seems to work, this wouldn't surprise me at all. There seems to be a lot of bullshit in this claim, but that specific piece wouldn't surprise me. Mostly unrelatedly, this part seems particularly shitty: > In fact, Uber had considered acquiring…

I don’t think so. When you sell a company you are relinquishing control of it. The acquirer wants to turn around and sell to Uber that’s none of your business. You aren’t entitled to know the ultimate acquirer to set your price any more than CVS is entitled to know my income to set my price for a bottle of Coke on a hot day.

I don't think Uber did anything wrong by asking Otto to buy the company that they wanted to buy. I would do the same.

But Levandowski screwed over his friend by getting him a lower price than he would have gotten.

This isn't CVS and Coke, this is one friend buying from another, only to turn around and flip it for more immediately.

Re: Levandowski files suit against Uber [pdf]

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lewandowski still apparently took massive amounts of proprietary data from his employer. Even if he was smart enough to not put that data on his new companies systems we all know he had a way to reference it when necessary.

I think the plea deal actually debunked the idea that he took docs. Govt could only "get him" on a meeting minutes doc. And the trade secrets that were found at Uber were software brought over by software engineers that haven't been charged.

This isn't accurate. The M&A documentation from Uber confirmed that Levandowski had stolen 5 discs worth of data from Google.
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