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Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

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Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#91

Post by himinlomax »

abtom wrote: post #62
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

Sorry, but your statement is as true as it's pointless.

Consider: healthy people who are injected a small dose of insulin experience tiredness (reduced energy use) and increased hunger.

Contrary to eating fats, eating carbs triggers the release of insulin. Young, healthy people who have a properly working endocrine system handle eating carbs fine. But for those who don't, it's a different story. Just like those test subjects, their body limits energy consumption and experiences constant hunger.

So yeah, they don't burn enough calories and eat too much of them, but the saying so is pointless if not insulting; the question that needs addressing is why.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#92

Post by cies »

Nasrudith wrote: post #61
cies wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bodies are primate bodies. Primates are frugavorian omnivores (get most calories from fruit, and eat very little animal tissue (mostly insects)). Fruit contain mostly carbs: short carbs a.k.a. sugars. We're optimized for eating lots of sugar. Primates have a hard time producing fat from carbs (a process called lipogenesis), just a few calorie% per day. This, combined with the tiny bits of fat in fruits/insects, w…

Notably if you want an example of a primary ketosis digestion look at cats, who have kidneys overclocked enough they can drink sea water (but shouldn't because they are stressed enough as it is), and may suffer ammonia poisoning if given meals deficent in the right ammino acids to prevent its build up. We aren't anywhere close to redesigning ourselves to change things around but it is important to realize that "good"…

> it is important to realize that "good" and "bad" aren't intrinsic but contextual in medicine, the dose makes the poison and all.

Exactly. And the article is advocating eating mainly animal products. That's a huge "dose", and while not medicine (but nutrition), I'd say this is a very dangerous diet to advocate. Especially since this is very far away from out "roots" (we're not carnivores, and we're not even close).

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#93

Post by shlant »

throwaway_kufu wrote: post #45
jmkerr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Paleo medicine' sounds like living a long, healthy life and dying an old man at 30.

Why? Paleolithic area humans may have had a life expectancy of 30-35 but it had nothing to do with diet, it has to do with so many dying as children (obviously not diet related), but once you passed the age of 5 you were generally going to live to your 60’s.

> it had nothing to do with diet

> obviously not diet related

You are making some pretty black and white statements without any evidence to support it but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming all that is true, that does not mean that if you eat like them you will live long.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#94

Post by danlugo92 »

Darmody wrote: post #26

I love how we're starting to focus on our diets to prevent or cure a huge amount of diseases. You don't need drugs, expensive treatments, nothing, only a good diet. (read the comments below for an clarification for this statement) I personally can't work on a very low carb diet. Now I'm eating carbs again but NOT refined carbs. I make sure everything I eat is nutrient dense. Well, not everything, I'm not a robot but…

Exercise too

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#95

Post by cies »

shock wrote: post #63
cies wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our bodies are primate bodies. Primates are frugavorian omnivores (get most calories from fruit, and eat very little animal tissue (mostly insects)). Fruit contain mostly carbs: short carbs a.k.a. sugars. We're optimized for eating lots of sugar. Primates have a hard time producing fat from carbs (a process called lipogenesis), just a few calorie% per day. This, combined with the tiny bits of fat in fruits/insects, w…

There are a lot of assertions in what you said, some pointers to resources where one can learn more would be useful. In particular the Homininis have separated from the Gorillinis around 6-8 million years ago. In that time, lots of things could have changed in our physiology.

This is not a very long time in evolution. We may have "adapted" to deal with more animal products (meat/dairy/eggs): those that did not take this food very well have had less offspring and now we're generally more adapted to it (though lactose intolerance is still huge in humans).

But evolving to thrive on diet that's so far off what we started with will take much longer.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#96

Post by shlant »

dalore wrote: post #80
abtom wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

"Eat less, move more" is the advice professionals have been giving for years. This advice doesn't work though. Yes you have to do those things but telling people to do that in of itself is useless. There are strong biological/environmental factors at play working against that very advice. Having obesity isn't just some decision that people wake up and decide on. The main advantage of the low-carb diet is that it may…

> This advice doesn't work though

It does work in the vast majority of cases. "biological/environmental factors" that may make this harder are the exception, not the norm

> The main advantage of the low-carb diet is that it may cause you to want to eat less

But this isn't unique to low-carb diets. You can also swap out a portion of your food for vegetables and get similar satiety while eating less calories. Eating slower can also help you eat less. The point is, an extremely restrictive diet is not necessary to achieve the same results.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#97

Post by biswaroop »

StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Do you avoid red meat? Also, do you worry about cholesterol intake from the meat and eggs?

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#98

Post by tlow »

PudgePacket wrote: post #82
abtom wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

Yes yes calorie in calorie out blah blah. Most people can't maintain a caloric deficit for an extended duration. Countless studies have shown that. The point is people who are overweight tend to lose weight when eating ad libitum on a ketogenic diet, whereas people on a standard diet generally gain weight (see western populations).

>Most people can't maintain a caloric deficit

1. Do you have an evidence or is this just an assumption based upon your perceived "feeling"? 2. Why?

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#99

Post by 49para »

abtom wrote: post #62
StacyC wrote: post #34

I am 58, on a (mostly) strict ketogenic diet since 2013. It has worked wonders for me and I expect to eat this way the rest of my life. I eat a lot of meat and eggs as I have found that combination (1) is something I enjoy very much, and (2) makes me feel the best. I didn’t have much weight to lose but I went from 175 to 160 (high school weight) and under 15% body fat. My energy level is consistently very good. Diet…

Weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit, not from keto. You can gain weight on keto if you eat more calories. You can achieve the same weight loss by just eating fewer total calories, without cutting carbs as well.

The benefit of low carb is the reduction in your body's production of Insulin.

Insulin resistance after decades of high carb diets, regardless of the # of calories consumed, is the source of all metabolic disease.

Low carb is going to reverse this, a simple reduction in calories won't.

The low carb diet also has access to your entirety of fat stores.

Insulin resistance will result in a huge amount of insulin in your blood stream. Insulin prevents fat from being removed from your fat storage so a reduction in calories, while it does show a short term (i.e.6 week) reduction in body weight, it also reduces your BMR which is why people regain the weight lost.

Once the alpha cells in your pancrease are insulin resistant, they will be producing glucagon causing elevated blood sugar compounding the problem.

tl/dr; - Insulin resistance is the source of all metabolic disease. Reduce it via a low carb/fasting lifestyle.

Re: Can an extreme low carb diet be used as medicine?

#100

Post by amanaplanacanal »

abtom wrote: post #77
jonfw wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is well understood by now. The issue is that most people aren't actually going to track their calories- they eat when they're hungry. If you adjust your diet- you can satiate your appetite on a lower number of calories. The idea is that meats, vegetables, and fats help you meet your nutritional goals on a fewer amount of calories when compared to carbs- because carbs are empty calories.

Agreed that satiation is a major aspect. How satiating a food is, is not simply about carbs/proteins/fats. Most carb rich foods people eat today are high in sugar and low in fiber. That causes people to overeat. You can also overeat with high fat foods because fat is much more energy dense. You can just as easy have a bad keto diet as you can have a bad high carb diet. Replacing processed carbs with processed meat wi…

The evidence that high cholesterol “causes” heart disease isn’t very good. There appears to be an association, but that’s really all we can say.
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