Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#91

Post by nikeee » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:54 PM UTC

wolco wrote: post #87

nikeee wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cigarette filters are the largest source of trash floating in the ocean and are usually not bio-degradable [1, 2]. They end up as micro plastics. Banning them instead of plastic straws can be seen as vastly more effetive [3]. Edit: It seems pretty useless as they essentially have no function (edit: to health), since the near-universal adoption of filters on cigarettes has not reduced harms to smokers and lung cancer…

"they have no function". They limit and control the amount of smoke. Provides a more consistant experience. I read your #4 source as proof. It talks about how cigarette companies tried coming up with a filter to reduce death but stopped because the filters were reducing the taste/experience. That doesn't tell us filters have no use. Include that link it tells us that in the 50s cigarette companies offered filterless…

> "they have no function". They limit and control the amount of smoke.

I edited my comment so be more precise. They don't seem to have a function to reduce health risks.

> #5 Most cigarettes butts are not brown at least in my megacity. White is more popular.

Well, the color change is about the change in color when used (not the initial color).

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#92

Post by userbinator » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

catalogia wrote: post #64

derefr wrote: post #16

Interesting side-note: here in Vancouver BC, we were full steam ahead on eliminating plastics (e.g. styrofoam take-out containers, plastic drinking straws, shopping bags, etc.) but that was seemingly all instantly reversed once social distancing started. I can understand the reversal of charging for shopping bags to encourage bringing reusable bags: reusable bags are potentially a disease vector. But what's with the…

> I can understand the reversal of charging for shopping bags to encourage bringing reusable bags: reusable bags are potentially a disease vector. I don't understand the rationale of not letting me bag my own groceries in my own bag. I'm not asking them to touch it, anymore than I ask them to touch my fabric jacket. Nor am I aware of any evidence of covid transmission through proximity to textile bags. The ban seems…

Unlike clothing, bags touch a lot more things, and being textile means that contaminants are easily absorbed and more difficult to remove. That's the argument I've heard, in any case.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#93

Post by wolco » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:57 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #15

wolco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ban single use paper and cotton? If you collected each you might have a penny a piece if you could recycle into something people want like homemade face masks.

It's not cotton, it's Cellulose Acetate. Not very bio-degradable usually

10 years maximum.

https://uhs.berkeley.edu/tobaccofacts

Which is reasonanable. Styrofoam cup's are not.

How quick do other things take to breakdown?

Vegetables

5 days –1 month

Paper

2–5 months

Cotton T-shirt

6 months

Orange peels

6 months

Tree leaves

1 year

Wool socks

1–5 years

Plastic-coated paper milk cartons

5 years

Leather shoes

25–40 years

Nylon fabric

30–40 years

Tin cans

50–100 years

Aluminium cans

80–100 years

Glass bottles

1 million years

Styrofoam cup

500 years to forever

Plastic bags

500 years to forever

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#94

Post by orwin » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 8:59 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #35

m12k wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trudeau did not specify the products to be banned, but said likely candidates include plastic bags, straws, cutlery, plates and stir sticks “where supported by scientific evidence and warranted.” I don't think legitimate medical uses of single use plastics are at risk here, as long as no reasonable alternative exists.

>likely candidates include plastic bags, straws, cutlery, plates and stir sticks “where supported by scientific evidence and warranted.” speaking of, what is the scientific evidence like for banning single use plastics? eg. the uk and denmark government found that single use plastic bags aren't worse for the environment than paper bags. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

But aren't they worse than reusable bags?

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#95

Post by solson4 » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

Negitivefrags wrote: post #57

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

> There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution

Except, that's not true. The study you're referring to found that those 10 rivers account for 90% of plastic waste going into the ocean from rivers, not all sources[1]. Rivers contribute only 10% or so of the plastic found in the ocean. So not nothing, but far from 90% of all plastic pollution.

Also, probably worth pointing out that quite a bit of that plastic probably originated in the west and was shipped to developing nations to be processed cheaply[2]. Often that amounts to little more than having it burned or dumped into those rivers mentioned.

I personally agree that plastic, when properly stored in a well managed landfill is harmless. But the fact is, that's not happening for far too much waste. Even waste that's used and properly disposed of in developed countries.

[1] https://factcheck.afp.com/widely-cited-study-did-not-show-95...

[2] https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/uk-plastic-polluti...

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#96

Post by gruez » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

orwin wrote: post #94

gruez wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>likely candidates include plastic bags, straws, cutlery, plates and stir sticks “where supported by scientific evidence and warranted.” speaking of, what is the scientific evidence like for banning single use plastics? eg. the uk and denmark government found that single use plastic bags aren't worse for the environment than paper bags. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

But aren't they worse than reusable bags?

...assuming they get reused. If you're the forgetful person who buys bags every time, using reusable bags is probably worse than the environment. That's why banning bags aren't the right approach. Impose a surcharge/tax/minimum price on the bags. If you're not going to remember to bring reusable bags when single use bags cost 50 cents each, you're probably not going to remember to bring reusable bags when single use bags are banned and all you can buy are 50 cent reusable bags.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#97

Post by walleeee » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

Negitivefrags wrote: post #57

This movement is really dumb. Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia. Plastic in a landfill harms nobody. The worst part is that people somehow have this linked in thier mind with climate change, as in fixing plastic pollution is going to help with that. Well if anything, it’s…

> Plastic pollution in the ocean is a problem, but it’s not the western countries causing it. There are 10 rivers that cause 90% of plastic pollution, and they are in Africa and Asia.

> Plastic in a landfill harms nobody.

This demonstrably false. Plastics in landfills can leach into groundwater, for one. Two, a huge proportion of the plastic we use and dispose in much of the west end up in Asian countries because we can't be bothered to make sure it's recycled. Three, micro- and nano-plastic pollution is nearly ubiquitous now: we breathe it in and ingest it daily, with almost no understanding of the effects. It is very literally everywhere, from ambient air to the seafloor.

Expecting large public or private institutions to make a meaningful difference without anybody sacrificing anything is exactly the mindset that got us where we are today. Institutions have independent incentive structures and must be forced to work in our interest, otherwise they will not.

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#98

Post by xkcd-sucks » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

fareesh wrote: post #68

Is it possible that due to issues of politics and optics that serious scientists / engineers are unable to work on solutions like "hemp plastic"? Admittedly as a layperson I am guilty of wondering whether it is just one of those crazy ideas the marijuana enthusiasts are pushing, or whether it has any legitimate potential. Has this material been given any serious consideration?

Is this "hemp plastic" like polyethylene made from hemp feedstock, or is it something like reformed cellulose? And what makes hemp different from corn or soybeans in this application?

There's active development and use of biomanufacturing of common chemicals because it has the potential to be much cheaper and less complicated than existing processes.

For example, fermenting sugar directly into ethylene at room temperature/atmospheric pressure using engineered yeast is simpler and safer than converting ethanol into ethylene in a multi step process involving high temperature and pressure, hydrogen feedstock, platinum catalyst, etc. Assuming you actually have bugs that can do the one step conversion.

But if this ethylene is polymerized into polyethylene and made into 6-pack rings, those are going to kick around for a thousand years in the ocean shedding microplastics and choking birds regardless of whether they were manufactured in a biological or "traditional" process.

Likewise, if the input to a biomanufacturing process is roundup-ready soy ("worst of the best"), that could be worse for the environment than a "traditional" catalytic cracking process fed by recycled plastic ("best of the worst")

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#99

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #96

orwin wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But aren't they worse than reusable bags?

...assuming they get reused. If you're the forgetful person who buys bags every time, using reusable bags is probably worse than the environment. That's why banning bags aren't the right approach. Impose a surcharge/tax/minimum price on the bags. If you're not going to remember to bring reusable bags when single use bags cost 50 cents each, you're probably not going to remember to bring reusable bags when single use…

[deleted]

Re: Canada aims to ban single-use plastics by 2021

#100

Post by antisthenes » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 9:30 PM UTC

Single use plastics are such a red-herring.

I remember flying Lufthansa, where the crew asked us to reuse plastic cups for water in the name of being eco-friendly.

The hilarious thing was that we were onboard a giant 747-8, that was 70% empty.

Obviously it's not an either/or situation, but that banning single-use plastics is anywhere near even the top 10 things that we could be doing is laughable. I doubt it would even make the top 100.