The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.
China is the bully here. Just see what they are doing at the borders with India at Galwan Valley! I don't see how you can come to that conclusion! US is doing the right thing!
US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
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Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#92I've been to China a few times, most recently in late 2018. I traveled overland by train from Beijing to Xian and then to Shanghai. Everything as a non-chinese citizen was just harder than it was when I visited in 2014. Buying train tickets was a massive hassle without a Chinese ID. Paying for anything was difficult because many places no longer take cash and you can't really get a proper WeChat account as a foreigne…
I regret that I wasn't able to see HK before China got to it. While I hope for the best for Taiwan, it might be one of the places I go next for that reason.
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#93I've visited China nearly every year for the past 6 years and never had any sort of issues. I thought all the security personnel I encountered at the airport, immigration, subway stations etc in China were very professional and respectful. In contrast to one of the last times I was returning from China to the U.S. and witnessed a highly unprofessional U.S. CBP officer who was yelling and berating incoming international visitors because they couldn't understand his English, which was infuriating. All this to say that if you want to visit China recreationally (outside of pandemics), you'll almost certainly be fine and treated well.
*Edit: I'm just offering my personal experience here for others to consider amongst other sources of information.
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#94Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good point, committing a crime there is an especially bad idea.
Isn't the point of arbitrary arrest that the crime is figured out afterwards, if at all?
Sort of. In many Asian countries, the rule of law is very weak or nonexistent. This means you will eventually come into contact with the police - usually for the purpose of extorting a bribe from you.
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#96The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.
China's state-sponsored IP theft has been called the largest transfer of wealth in history. I'm honestly curious what the best diplomatic strategy is to combat it, other than declaring war.
I doubt this claim very much. How was such a calculation made?
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
My experience in tienanmen: Showing my passwort and a bag scanner, going through. Area was limited with small metal fences. My experience at the eiffel tower: Bag scanner, didn't go through (because I had a huge bag which was not allowed). Area was limited with huge glass panes. (Don't know if they want to see any ID) So it felt very much the same to me, but the security in Paris was probably not police (I didn't go…
You just ignored the armored vehicles and police station permanently setup at one end of the square? The facial recognition when you go through the scanners? The guards posted at vantage points with rifles? You were either paying no attention at all, or you are intentionally misrepresenting the situation.
> You just ignored the armored vehicles and police station permanently setup at one end of the square?
Apparently yes, at least I can't find them on my pictures and don't remember them (but that doesn't mean they weren't there, human memories are notoriously unreliable). But I didn't took that many pictures either way, because it was slightly raining and not that interesting, I accidentally went when the forbidden city was closed.
> The facial recognition when you go through the scanners?
I have a hard time telling facial recognition and non facial recognition security cameras apart. They are common in many places of the world, so I stopped noticing them all that much.
>The guards posted at vantage points with rifles?
I mostly remember the honor guards and police at the entry. But I wouldn't be surprised if there were some with rifles somewhere, as those are not that uncommon at high profile places.
> You were either paying no attention at all, or you are intentionally misrepresenting the situation.
I'm sorry you get that impression just because it doesn't fit with your experience. I personally think that both our experiences are likely to be true, but are like snapshots of a given time.
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#98Note that US citizens have long been warned about stuff like this, especially exit bans. From the state department in 2018:
> Exercise increased caution in China due to the arbitrary enforcement of local laws and special restrictions on dual U.S.-Chinese nationals.
> Chinese authorities have the broad ability to prohibit travelers from leaving China (also known as ‘exit bans’); exit bans have been imposed to compel U.S. citizens to resolve business disputes, force settlement of court orders, or facilitate government investigations. Individuals not involved in legal proceedings or suspected of wrongdoing have also be subjected to lengthy exit bans in order to compel their family members or colleagues to cooperate with Chinese courts or investigators.
> U.S. citizens visiting or residing in China have been arbitrarily interrogated or detained for reasons related to “state security.” Security personnel have detained and/or deported U.S. citizens for sending private electronic messages critical of the Chinese government.
travel.state.gov archived from 2018: https://web.archive.org/web/20180112180843/https://travel.st...
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a very uncharitable and pedantic reading of it. If there were a law to "kill political dissidents of party x" then enforcement of that law would technically be enforcement of the law, but it would certainly not be for the purposes of maintaining law and order in the manner that the term is commonly understood to mean.
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Law and Order the euphemism is not the same thing as Law and Order as it's commonly understood, even if the euphimistic usage appears more often in modern politics than the common usage. It's unfortunate that euphemisms dillute meaning (and it's probably unfortunate that they must exist at all), but that doesn't mean the actual meaning no longer exists.
Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China
#100The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.
Trump's tactics with China haven't been great, but he was right to do something about Chinese IP theft, security concerns, and Chinese joint venture model. The US should have pushed forward with the TPP (blame starts with Obama on this) to build regional support, and not pushed hard for trade negotiations with strategic allies. WTF are you doing making Canada mad over trade, especially when there's a trade war with China?