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James Gosling joining Google

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Re: James Gosling joining Google

#91

Post by caf »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #76
davidw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to hear about some of the Tcl vs Java stuff. I was very into Tcl for a while and hated to see it go south: http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-...

Tcl was the 'language to beat' amongst the new language products. Self was the 'language like no other' (or a totally new way to express what you wanted to a computer). Java was the 'language that re-used code'. C++ was kind of a joke (remember this was the late 80's, early 90's) since it took a perfectly acceptable language, C, and made writing code harder, more error prone, and less likely to produce correct code (…

One of the TCL guys is actually working on compiling a NaCl-hosted TCL build right now - so they're finally getting there ;)

(Great read, by the way!)

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#92

Post by SimHacker »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #76
davidw wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to hear about some of the Tcl vs Java stuff. I was very into Tcl for a while and hated to see it go south: http://journal.dedasys.com/2010/03/30/where-tcl-and-tk-went-...

Tcl was the 'language to beat' amongst the new language products. Self was the 'language like no other' (or a totally new way to express what you wanted to a computer). Java was the 'language that re-used code'. C++ was kind of a joke (remember this was the late 80's, early 90's) since it took a perfectly acceptable language, C, and made writing code harder, more error prone, and less likely to produce correct code (…

And remember September 1994 when RMS launched the TCL War with "Why you should not use TCL"? http://www.vanderburg.org/OldPages/Tcl/war/0000.html

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#93

Post by Stormbringer »

statictype wrote: post #20
adamc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder whether they will bring out a competitor to Java, maybe for Android.

They already have at least one world class language designer in Guido. They also have the Go language. Point being that if they wanted a competing language to Java, they probably already had the talent to get it done. (Or just, you know, use Mono/C#).

I threw up a little in my mouth at the thought of James Gosling going to Google to work on Mono/C#. That is quite possibly the most retarded piece of speculation I've seen on the internet all year. How on earth you got 18 upvotes I do not know. Maybe Bruno has a spider crawling the net for references and then sicked his elite team of Argnetinian cyber-ninja-commandoes on it.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#94

Post by billmcneale »

Stormbringer wrote: post #93
statictype wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have at least one world class language designer in Guido. They also have the Go language. Point being that if they wanted a competing language to Java, they probably already had the talent to get it done. (Or just, you know, use Mono/C#).

I threw up a little in my mouth at the thought of James Gosling going to Google to work on Mono/C#. That is quite possibly the most retarded piece of speculation I've seen on the internet all year. How on earth you got 18 upvotes I do not know. Maybe Bruno has a spider crawling the net for references and then sicked his elite team of Argnetinian cyber-ninja-commandoes on it.

Yup, that and saying that Python and Go are well designed languages.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#95

Post by Stormbringer »

neilk wrote: post #72
joshes wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very solid point. Having an internally developed language like Go (which is, according to Rob Pike, being used "for real stuff" inside of Google), the creator of Python (one of the most widely used languages in recent years) and the creator of Java (one of the most widely used languages for at least a decade now) under one roof has to be an embarrassment of riches for any group intending to innovate in the…

Nah, that's too many cooks. They all want different things. Guido is interested primarily in usability, and Python is notoriously poor in performance. Rob Pike writes systems languages. With Java, Gosling has written a very enterprise-friendly language, that drags C++ halfway to Lisp.

I think that Guido probably has his plate full with the open revolt over the transition to version 3.

Javascript is much closer to a halfway point to Lisp than Java. I don't really see Java as being at all similar to Lisp... witness the 3-4 year (possibly longer) debacle trying to get closures into the language. Talk about banging a square rhinoceros into a round hole.

Java's point of greatest similarity to C++ is undoubtedly Generics, which has all the syntactic disadvantages of C++ templates, but none of the meta-programming advantages.

But one of the ways of seeing that C++ and Java are quite dissimilar is to first grok Java Interfaces, and then read through the smalltalk/C++ version of the GoF book Design Patterns, with a view to how many of the Patterns don't even make sense in Java or are obsolete in Java because of Interfaces.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#96

Post by billmcneale »

ShabbyDoo wrote: post #25
ori_b wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, they'll try to continue with Java instead, I'd expect. They're a big user internally.

Gosling would provide the credibility necessary if Google wanted to usurp Oracle as the provider of an "official" version of Java and/or the JVM. Big Corps are terrified of Oracle. I worked for a Fortune 100 which was all about using Weblogic vs. open source offerings like JBoss. Then, after the Oracle acquisition, the directive was to "explore competing options". Oracle's history of shakedowns is so well established…

I doubt that. Gosling hasn't worked on anything related to Java since JSR-1 (that was before 2000).

He checked out from the Java world a while ago.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#97

Post by statictype »

Stormbringer wrote: post #93
statictype wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have at least one world class language designer in Guido. They also have the Go language. Point being that if they wanted a competing language to Java, they probably already had the talent to get it done. (Or just, you know, use Mono/C#).

I threw up a little in my mouth at the thought of James Gosling going to Google to work on Mono/C#. That is quite possibly the most retarded piece of speculation I've seen on the internet all year. How on earth you got 18 upvotes I do not know. Maybe Bruno has a spider crawling the net for references and then sicked his elite team of Argnetinian cyber-ninja-commandoes on it.

Once you're done throwing up please re-read what I wrote. I merely suggested that if Google wanted an alternative to Java they could use c# which is a similar (and probably better) language instead of inventing their own.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#98

Post by billmcneale »

zacharypinter wrote: post #5

This should add an interesting (though legally irrelevant) twist to the Oracle lawsuit, since they're litigating with some of Gosling's patents.

Not really, it's already the case with this patent:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=mEwEAAAAEBAJ

which was invented by Frank Yellin, who is currently a Google employee.

Everyone seeing Sun as the "good guy in the patent war" needs to remember that the Oracle/Google lawsuit was made possible because Sun has always been one the of companies filing the most software patents.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#99

Post by Stormbringer »

statictype wrote: post #97
Stormbringer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I threw up a little in my mouth at the thought of James Gosling going to Google to work on Mono/C#. That is quite possibly the most retarded piece of speculation I've seen on the internet all year. How on earth you got 18 upvotes I do not know. Maybe Bruno has a spider crawling the net for references and then sicked his elite team of Argnetinian cyber-ninja-commandoes on it.

Once you're done throwing up please re-read what I wrote. I merely suggested that if Google wanted an alternative to Java they could use c# which is a similar (and probably better) language instead of inventing their own.

Be that as it may I still think you're delusional for suggesting that Google should jump on the Mono bandwagon, since Mono directly benefits their biggest competitor.

Moreover, in what way does hiring Gosling suggest that Google are seeking an alternative to Java? Is Gosling a closet C# fancier? I strongly suspect the opposite.

Re: James Gosling joining Google

#100

Post by robfig »

rch wrote: post #32
ori_b wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, they'll try to continue with Java instead, I'd expect. They're a big user internally.

I'd counter that it's important to specify the time-frame you're talking about. For instance, would you say that they'll try to continue as a big Java user for the next 15 years? When you stretch out the time-frame, your assertion sounds substantially less credible. At least to me.

Google has an immense amount of Java code, in addition to all the Java programmers it took to write them, a good number of whom are programmers that have written Java for their entire professional careers.

If the bar for getting away from it is rewriting millions of lines of code and retraining 1/3 - 1/2 of their engineers, it seems credible to me.

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