Where Am I? NYTimes or Google? • Hacker News Board

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#91

Post by S_A_P » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:54 AM UTC

smabie wrote: post #82

lalos wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Don't be evil", using primary colors in the logo to bring that kindergarten familiarity, fun doodles, a dumb funny movie and quirky April Fools projects were a great marketing strategy to distract your average person in lowering their guard and feel safe to give all the data to an advertisement company. I wonder if they currently teach this case in marketing/PR classes.

I mean, I don't think that was the intention. I'm sure Page and Brin really wanted to be different when they started. But as a company grows, the vision of the founders is excised and replaced with the same shit found in all large corporations. To be clear, I don't think Google or any other large company is evil. It's just the way things turn on, how the incentives are structured.

I think that’s a great way to put it. Each decision to grow the business is not necessarily bad or evil. As google has grown and acquired market share they leveraged that to spur more growth and market share. They act in their own best interest. It’s not necessarily evil, but selfish motives and evil sometimes look a lot alike.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#92

Post by pvg » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:56 AM UTC

Quis hic locus, quae regio, quae mundi plaga?

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#93

Post by satyrnein » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

Does it actually matter where you are, or is that just an implementation detail?

One interpretation is that Google is changing the URL bar from "where" to "who", which may be the more relevant information for most users. Signed exchanges are an interesting way to achieve that.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#94

Post by graiz » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

AMP is the consequence of HTML and CSS being awful at performance. I'm not sure why the underlying problem hasn't been addressed. Rending text and images on a page shouldn't require a secondary cache and an amp rendering framework on top of ton of css and layers of javascript. It's text and images.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#95

Post by ComputerGuru » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

gregable wrote: post #81

tyingq wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AMP spec REQUIRES you include a Google controlled JavaScript URL with the AMP runtime. So technically the whole signing bit is a little moot, given that the JS could do whatever it wanted.

The same could be said of any CDN hosted javascript library. For example: jquery. There is an open intent to implement support for publishers self-hosting the AMP library as well.

You missed the required part.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#96

Post by vinay_ys » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

CGamesPlay wrote: post #20

jhhh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to also spawn a whole new class of semi-persistent malicious pages (say created via XSS) that once signed and captured can be continuously replayed to clients until expiration.

What? The signing allows the content to be mirrored in other locations with guarantees about consistency. It doesn't imply anything more about the content than SSL does.

Along with signing, we need explicit content cache busting and explicit allowed mirrors list (which can be revoked instantly). Then it would be at par with TLS + current cache busting mechanisms on top of TLS.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#97

Post by SquareWheel » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #79

SquareWheel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Cloudflare end their Amp Cache? They hosted one previously.

I didn't know about it, AMP site lists only Google, Bing. But I know for a fact that cloudflare has no issues caching AMP sites like any other sites though.

It looks like they killed it last year. The codename was Ampersand.

Creation: https://www.cloudflare.com/press-releases/2017/cloudflare-an...

Death: https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-amp-real-url/

I agree with you that users should be able to choose their Amp Cache.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#98

Post by snowwrestler » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:01 AM UTC

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #46

I think the main issue is limited AMPCache providers and inability for the publisher to choose their own AMPCache providers. Which is being exploited the two search engines. AMP project by itself is open-source and it explicitly states 'Other companies may build their own AMP cache as well'.[1] There are only 2 AMP Cache providers - Google, Bing. Further, 'As a publisher, you don't choose an AMP Cache, it's actually…

Can we please stop trying to pretend AMP is some sort of community-driven open source project? AMP was created by Google, for the benefit of Google. We are not obligated to play along every time a company says “open source.”

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#99

Post by donaltroddyn » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:05 AM UTC

gregable wrote: post #81

tyingq wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AMP spec REQUIRES you include a Google controlled JavaScript URL with the AMP runtime. So technically the whole signing bit is a little moot, given that the JS could do whatever it wanted.

The same could be said of any CDN hosted javascript library. For example: jquery. There is an open intent to implement support for publishers self-hosting the AMP library as well.

For most JS served by CDN, you can (and should) use Subresource Integrity to verify the content. At least the last time I was involved in an AMP project, Google considered AMP to be an "evergreen" project and did not allow publishers to lock in to a specific version.

Re: Where Am I? NYTimes or Google?

#100

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sat, Jul 04, 2020, 5:06 AM UTC

realusername wrote: post #90

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another way of looking at it is: they absolutely are self-regulating . And it appears to be a problem. Another problem is, there's effectively no distinction between regulator and regulatee.

> Another way of looking at it is: they absolutely are self-regulating. If they do that, it's not really visible, I don't see any regulation with how Google is behaving regarding search & web, if anything it looks like anti-competitive monopoly behaviours.

Ya'll misunderstood.

Self-regulating in the same way an alcoholic meth addict self-regulates.