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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#91

Post by throwaway_98554 »

andreygrehov wrote: post #22
cal5k wrote: post #3

This is a bit of an aside, but... What I think is getting obscured in all of the overheated rhetoric about race is the fact that all humans want a tribe. We want to feel like we belong to something greater than ourselves. I'm Canadian, but I can imagine if I were to move to France to learn French it would be similar. Many people would be welcoming, but some might be impatient with my shitty French and say/do rude thi…

Here is an interesting observation. If we take a look at how different nations are distributed across big cities, we can see that many neighborhoods are race specific. A lot of cities have chinese, jewish, russian, mexican, etc. neighborhoods, meaning that people _naturally_ want to live with _similar_ people. What's more important, it happens organically. It's not like some organization or government forces people t…

You are right. Some of the sibling replies argue the contrary by using a sleight of hand; stating the desire to associate from only one of the two parties.

Take for example the relationship between a man and woman.

If both want to live with each other, everything is fine.

What if the man wants to associate with the woman, but she doesn't? Do we force her to accept the man? Does he have a right to access her?

Obviously that's silly. We all know that the relationship is only valid if BOTH parties consent.

And yet in regards to neighborhoods the sibling replies act as if only the man's opinion mattered. "That Jew wanted to come in but was refused! People were not free to associate!" They ignore that refusing someone is also part of the freedom of association.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#92

Post by okaythen »

atdt wrote: post #55

This isn't going to be a popular sentiment here, but I think Ibrahim's experiences shows why diversity training is important. It's 2020; there is no reason for things like this happen: > I've been to job interviews where the receptionist will take me to a whiteboard room. When the interviewer comes in, he'd say: "I'm sorry, you must be in the wrong room." > I often get: "I couldn't tell where you are from on the phon…

This is it, what those statements are implicitly saying is you can't be black and work in tech. They place an extra barrier in a already difficult situation.(job interviews)

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#93

Post by komali2 »

numpad0 wrote: post #79
komali2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try asking some POC friends or colleagues! Get their perspective. Another user mentioned that it feels like kneeling on the ground and using "baby talk." That's not what's being said here. It's simply taking a moment to observe yourself and other colleagues potentially engaging in unconscious (or even conscious - you may have an avowed racist hiding it very well on the team!) bias. This is being an ally. It's not pat…

> POC It’s not like “white” people aren’t colored

POC means people of color means non white.

You taking the anthropologic perspective isn't scientifically incorrect - race doesn't actually exist, after all, in any meaningful way. However it is sociologically incorrect to call white people "colored."

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#94

Post by foogazi »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #49

> I am a Guinean citizen, who went to French school in Saudi Arabia, and now lives in California. So he is not even African-American. I can’t understand why it is important to him how much people share skin color with him, he should feel as good as any other immigrant. Do even middle class Americans segregate themselves by race at work?

It is important to him because it’s important to the other non-PoC people that keep thinking he should not be in the room

Re-read the interview anecdote: the interviewer, probably not having many black coworkers, thought that a black man would not be interviewing in tech

Nothing to do with job qualification for the job

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#95

Post by hombre_fatal »

komali2 wrote: post #70
hombre_fatal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that only works if you have trouble treating people equally otherwise which is quite the character trait. That advice goes back to this idea that white people are born with the original sin of racism. I find it incredibly patronizing to actively pursue "okay, black guy is talking, let me me play everything up a little bit!" Yikes. Reminds me of kneeling to talk to a child in a baby voice when they're crying that…

> white people are born with the original sin of racism. No, it doesn't, but this is generally speaking a perfect encapsulation of the "all lives matter" perspective, which is morally incorrect, usually not because of raw KKK level hatred or racism but instead simple ignorance of what unconscious bias and racism is really like for POC in America. > I find it incredibly patronizing to actively pursue "okay, black guy…

I feel like, to unmask me as unempathic, you ignored the rest of my post that starts with "a leadership + empathy trait..." where I attempt to generalize the goal here instead of this myopic "POC" narrow-vision. My empathy doesn't need Sparknotes for who to help, just the built-in human radar we have where we can parcel out the social hierarchy of a group.

When you have the empathy I described, you don't need a custom rule engine for black people or women or indians. You realize that people don't have equal footing even among people you would think are equal peers. Nor a group of ten white twenty-year-old guys from the same suburb. Some of the individuals in that group may be enduring the full brunt of the suffering you're talking about. And there are groups where black men have the social power and have the power to cut others off, they don't need your white-guilt superhero help.

Most of us reading this aren't even the well-spoken social apex of the groups we're in and could be assisted by others with the empathy that I describe.

In another comment, you admit that you found yourself unintentionally talking over women at the workplace. Which can't be an easy thing to introspectively discover nor admit on a public forum.

Yet your reply re-focuses on POC, racism, KKK when my viewpoint generalizes over women, people of all races, people in your peer group, and groups of any composition.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#96

Post by komali2 »

dafoex wrote: post #80
komali2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> white people are born with the original sin of racism. No, it doesn't, but this is generally speaking a perfect encapsulation of the "all lives matter" perspective, which is morally incorrect, usually not because of raw KKK level hatred or racism but instead simple ignorance of what unconscious bias and racism is really like for POC in America. > I find it incredibly patronizing to actively pursue "okay, black guy…

This is great and all, but as someone who's been patronised in this way for being the autistic kid, I'd rather you just treat me like a human being. I've learned my coping strategies, I don't need you to cope for me.

I'm sorry you were patronized. Nobody likes being patronized.

You may have learned to cope but not all coping is equal and not everyone can. Again, the argument isn't for baby talk. It's for adult strategies for adult issues. Be it ensuring that a woman can have her voice heard in a meeting or an autistic employee can have a desk in a non-busy part of the office. Non-patronizing, reasonable, and aware methods to improve inclusivity and be an ally.

An ally doesn't take over the fighting entirely, they simply aid.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#97

Post by wrycoder »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #15

Now that I think about it: I’ve met more female programmers than black ones. And I might have met maybe 2 female programmers, and 0 black programmers. Weird. Now imagine being a 50 year old black female programmer and getting hired. Anyway I’d welcome colleagues of any color and gender.

“Now imagine being a 50 year old black female programmer and getting hired.“

If one showed up, you know very well she’d be hired. At least, that’s my impression of what would happen at a large company.

“Anyway I’d welcome colleagues of any color and gender.”

Yes.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#98

Post by komali2 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #95
komali2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> white people are born with the original sin of racism. No, it doesn't, but this is generally speaking a perfect encapsulation of the "all lives matter" perspective, which is morally incorrect, usually not because of raw KKK level hatred or racism but instead simple ignorance of what unconscious bias and racism is really like for POC in America. > I find it incredibly patronizing to actively pursue "okay, black guy…

I feel like, to unmask me as unempathic, you ignored the rest of my post that starts with "a leadership + empathy trait..." where I attempt to generalize the goal here instead of this myopic "POC" narrow-vision. My empathy doesn't need Sparknotes for who to help, just the built-in human radar we have where we can parcel out the social hierarchy of a group. When you have the empathy I described, you don't need a custo…

I don't intend to "unmask" you as unempathetic. I apologise for writing that way. My intent is to challenge whether you truly understand what a minority population of your team goes through.

Everything I'm saying here I've learned through conversations with POC and women coworkers. I want to comment in a way that convinces others to have those conversations. If we "ignore color," we never have those conversations.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#99

Post by bJGVygG7MQVF8c »

nus07 wrote: post #32
rootusrootus wrote: post #12

This seems like such a hard problem to really solve, since so much of what we consider racism, or at least borderline racism, has a significant basis in fundamental human thinking. I really feel for the guy, but it's hard to know where to start. I try really hard to ignore color, but I'm not immune to at least noticing . Then I try hard not to double-take. It's completely expected to meet Indians at the workplace, bu…

Thank you . That was a very honest reply . As someone who is brown and worked for over a decade in Oregon - I used to be similar to the first guy in my 20s . I was laidback , felt in touch with the local culture and was easy to work with. All of that was great until I gained experience and did not get promotions and saw my white co-workers keep getting promoted to lead and managerial positions . This was despite me b…

This is useful to see, thanks for sharing. It mirrors my own experience. I came into this profession with a lot of energy, enthusiasm, and an open heart. Then I had a couple of experiences that triggered "The Great Noticing" in me. I haven't really been the same since, though I've tried to keep an open heart/mind and lean against the wariness that's come with experience. But mostly I try to stay away from SF, the PNW, and their geographically dispersed cultural outposts.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#100

Post by Edmond »

konaraddi wrote: post #89
Edmond wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where the author got his numbers from but if you read the full article, the author notes that the numbers/percentages themselves can be misleading, because that 3.1% could include the security guard who swipes your badge or some other peripheral role at a technology company. It is also true that Blacks do in fact quit the industry at high rates due to bias treatment; based on the number of computer science a…

> specifically in the federal government...unfortunately that is not likely to be the source of the next great tech innovator The federal government helps build and fund innovative research projects and private businesses. Notable examples include the Manhattan project, GPS, SpaceX, and the Internet. I’d bet the US government will continue to be a source, and assist other sources, of innovation. Edit: The following h…

My comment wasn't meant to disparage federally driven innovation in general. I am referring more specifically to the software and information technology industry.
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