Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation • Hacker News Board

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#91

Post by roystonvassey » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

Amidst this debate, I think it’s worth looking at the EU Blue Card scheme [1].

A few key differences versus the H1B (correct me if I’m wrong - my understanding of H1B features are basis discussions I have seen here):

1. Not tied to a specific employer. At least theoretically this is the case though your residence permit clearly specifies your employer.

2. Family-friendly options where your family can join you with the initial visa application. Spouses/Partners are immediately eligible to work.

3. Integration courses for language and culture, offered for free usually, and for the entire family.

4. After 2 years, you can switch jobs and after an another year, you can apply for permanent residence. The steps and guidelines are clearly specified and all the laws side with the employer to ensure no exploitation or harassment.

1 - https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/aamt/zugastimaa/buergerse...

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#92

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

akuchling wrote: post #30

pentae wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't aware that our government was currently being run by white supremacists. Do you have a source?

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/26/783047584/leaked-emails-fuel-... "For almost three decades, Jared Taylor has been publishing his ideas about race at the American Renaissance magazine and now at a website called AmRen, which is considered a mouthpiece for white supremacist ideology. ... The website is not well-known outside white nationalist circles — but it found an audience in White House adviser Stephen Miller."

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#93

Post by ActsJuvenile » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

automated_toast wrote: post #8

I for one am ecstatic about this. I want less competition for my role, not more. It is hard to compete when the top 5% of every other economy comes in and crowds me out.

Doctors vs Software Engineers are very interesting case studies in my eyes.

AMA (American Medical Association) has successfully lobbied congress to cap residencies at 100K a year, essentially restricting supply. Foreign doctors have to go through a gauntlet of exams, tests, and licenses that keeps market from being flooded with cheaper talent and diluting local doctor salaries.

Software Engineers have failed to unite like this, so the MS+FAANGs and consulting companies have lobbied for free flow of cheap labor under the guise of innovation. There are no board certifications, no licensing exams, and no restrictions on supply. This is why software salaries have been artificially suppressed for two decades.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#94

Post by nine_zeros » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

czatt wrote: post #4

As an intended MBA applicant for the class of 2021, the recent uncertainty around H1B visas makes me very uneasy and disappointed. I was forced to leave the U.S. back in 2016 despite having an investment banking job and paying meaningful taxes, which was incredibly frustrating. I was hoping for another shot at living and working in the US after completing an MBA, and now it looks like there either won't be a chance o…

Avoid US schools. Don't be a fool. Don't go into 6-figure debt for no ROI and a brutal environment that doesn't want you. It's a no-brainer.

Avoid any business, education or employment in the US.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#95

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#96

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

throwmehaweh wrote: post #52

qppo wrote: post #16

The largest H1-B visa sponsors are Cognizant, Tata, Wipro, Infosys, and Deloitte. None of those scream "innovation" to me. The system absolutely needs reform, and I think most people can agree with that. But that said, blanket bans on immigration by the white supremacists and nationalists currently running our government and deciding our immigration are probably not designed to help America or innovation either. The…

> by the white supremacists and nationalists currently running our government and deciding our immigration This type of baseless rhetoric is rooted in identity politics and underlies the current division in the US. Directly from the Whitehouse Proclamation[0]: "American workers compete against foreign nationals for jobs in every sector of our economy, including against millions of aliens who enter the United States t…

[deleted]

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#97

Post by czatt » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #42

czatt wrote: post #4

As an intended MBA applicant for the class of 2021, the recent uncertainty around H1B visas makes me very uneasy and disappointed. I was forced to leave the U.S. back in 2016 despite having an investment banking job and paying meaningful taxes, which was incredibly frustrating. I was hoping for another shot at living and working in the US after completing an MBA, and now it looks like there either won't be a chance o…

The other poster was remarkably rude for no reason. I’d say that you don’t really want an H1B though. What you want is a concrete and easily accessible path to citizenship that takes your high-skilled degree into account. To that end, I would support broader immigration reform rather than trying to fix the irredeemable H1B program.

I 100% agree with your statement. But for now, all that was done was suspend H1Bs without a viable measure that would create a path to citizenship (or just settlement) via a high-skilled degree. So it seems like a step backwards and very disheartening.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#98

Post by quineoa » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #78

There are 2 sides to every coin. It can be frustrating/demoralizing to American software developers as well, when they go to interview for a job, to see they are competing with an absolute flood of Indian and Chinese H1Bs. Then, when all of your interviewers are Chinese and Indian as well and you don't get the job, you sort of feel like the victim of favoritism and that you've been pushed out of your own country's in…

Is it ridiculous to consider that you fail your interviews because you’re not as good on a global level because some countries have better work ethic than others and better education systems than others even if America considers them to be “lower than”. Adobe and Microsoft CEOs went to the same high school and it wasn’t in the US ;)

- jealous American student

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#99

Post by BeetleB » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:31 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #39

padiyar83 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will fuel the "remote anywhere" trend that's already underway. If a H1b engineer in US suppresses wage growth, wait until the same engineer can do the work for 1/3rd the cost from his own country, especially when everyone in the team is remote.

You say this like it’s that easy. We have remotes working in Singapore and Australia, and it is a far cry from “easy” to work with these people either due to timing constraints, language barriers or other aspects that disrupt fluid communication.

> language barriers

Americans couldn't comprehend the perfect English spoken in these countries?

(Sorry - couldn't resist!)

Edit: In case people don't get it, it used to be a common joke that Americans had poorer English than well educated foreigners. Definitely for written, but even occasionally spoken English. I've worked with at least 3 people who were either from Singapore or from Malaysia but educated in Singapore. All had great English, and with 2 of them you'd never know you weren't speaking to a native English speaker - you'd think you were speaking to a British person.

Re: Andrew Ng: The suspension of H1B is bad for the US and bad for innovation

#100

Post by tmoney1818 » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 4:32 PM UTC

Here's an interesting alternative to the current H1B visa. It replaces the lottery with an auction. I imagine this would make companies think twice about hiring "cheap" foreign labor, but then again it might lower the salaries further given the extra burden on the sponsoring company.

https://www.hoover.org/sites/default/files/uploads/aafs/2013....