Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

garron.blog

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 129 posts

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#91

Post by boring_twenties »

aaomidi wrote: post #51
boring_twenties wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only useful content on the page was not only static text, but static plain text. If the modern frontend framework can't display that without JS, then I think it's fair to call it a shitty frontend framework.

More so it's not configured to do that - which depends on the priority of the team working on it.

Well that's true for anything, so it means nothing. I know someone who was told with a straight face, in a meeting about an out of control memory leak in some software, "not leaking memory wasn't in the requirements."

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#92

Post by mark_and_sweep »

mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

> I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE

From my experience, running websites in Germany,

- you can still expect ~20% of desktop users to surf with IE or legacy Edge, and

- the above percentage is higher the older your users are (and lower the younger they are).

Also note that end of support for IE is still 5 years out.

This may be insignificant to you. For others, IE support is essential.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#94

Post by couchand »

matthoiland wrote: post #36
mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

I've spent most of my career as a front end developer. We have three tools in our toolbox: HTML, CSS, and Javascript. We need them all and will push each to the extreme to create better experiences for our users and reimagine what the web can become. I also work in the healthcare space with heavy HIPAA security requirements. Like any language/framework/platform there are best practices to follow for solid security an…

> I've spent most of my career as a front end developer. We have three tools in our toolbox: HTML, CSS, and Javascript.

While it may be common, this seems a somewhat problematic framing of things. You're first responsibility ought to be to an analysis of the problem space, determining the appropriate tool to use based on the needs of the project. If you've already chosen the solution before you've even considered the problem, then of course you would have trouble conceiving of the options outside that narrow set.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#95

Post by enriquto »

matthoiland wrote: post #36
mdoms wrote: post #12

I absolutely agree that JS is over-used, but for anything other than very static content I generally am not interested in kowtowing to the strict "no JS" folks. Javascript has become a fundamental part of the web, and for the same reason I won't put in extra work to make my sites work in IE, I also will not put in extra work to make my sites work for (a vanishingly small number of) people who pre-emptively block one…

I've spent most of my career as a front end developer. We have three tools in our toolbox: HTML, CSS, and Javascript. We need them all and will push each to the extreme to create better experiences for our users and reimagine what the web can become. I also work in the healthcare space with heavy HIPAA security requirements. Like any language/framework/platform there are best practices to follow for solid security an…

> to create better experiences for our users

I do not fucking want an "experience", I want hypertext with some images.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#96

Post by enriquto »

dmortin wrote: post #8

People like interactive sites which give immediate visual feedback for actions. Aside from the tracking stuff it's a better user experience, so it's unlikely to go away, especially if the demand for no-js is tiny.

> People like interactive sites which give immediate visual feedback for actions.

Precisely. That's exactly what you get by disabling javascript on most sites.

Two of the fastest sites that I know are sourcehut and the D-language forums. They are much snappier than any javascript-infested site.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#97

Post by viklove »

oAlbe wrote: post #38
1v1id wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between a small percentage needing something and a small percentage wanting something, though. If all wheelchair users could turn off their handicap at any time with no consequence, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a wheelchair ramp anywhere.

If all JavaScript blockers users could turn on JavaScript at any time without consequences to their privacy and security, you'd be hard pressed to find JavaScript blockers as well.

If they're really concerned about privacy and security, their machine would be air-gapped and the web wouldn't even be available as an attack vector. What it really is though is a superiority complex fulfilling their need to be "better" then filthy JS developers who don't code in Rust and Scala.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#99

Post by brigandish »

chewmieser wrote: post #33
jchook wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript poses a large security and privacy risk. Think browser fingerprinting, XSS, JS-based analytics, poor or missing CSP + hijacked npm modules, etc. I generally keep JS disabled as much as possible.

That's great and it's your choice to disable it but his point was don't expect developers that rely on JavaScript to power modern web experiences to develop their site to fit your strict requirements. JS does way more then just fingerprint users and open up security vulnerabilities. You're in a minority that's asking for fall-backs in a world that's so far removed from simple fixes.

> to power modern web experiences

This would seem an opportune moment to point out that modern does not always equal good.

Re: Create No-JavaScript friendly sites

#100

Post by brigandish »

phyzome wrote: post #3

One of the biggest annoyances is sites that use stylesheets to blank out the page until Javascript removes that style. I think this is to stop "flash of unstyled content" stuff that I really don't care about, but it's also trivially solvable by having Javascript add the style in question in the first place.

It's one of the reasons I also started to block CSS, too. Sites tend to load quicker but I need to do more scrolling.
Post reply on HN