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Video Games Are the Future of Education

nabeelqu.co

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Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#91
I think there's been a fundamental conflation of schooling and education in the USA. Go back and read Paul Graham's essay on education. It's ultimately a critique of a very specific and particular social institution.

It is possible that software is the future of US K-12 education. I could see huge success for a piece of software inspired by DuoLingo's gamification and Khan Academy's bite-sized quick-"I get it"-gratification content design.

But if you understand the institution of US K-12 schooling -- test scores, funding formulas, etc. -- you quickly realize that this is a quite dystopic future. We will raise an entire generation whose only skill is consuming software that relentlessly optimizes for their test performance. Whole hoards of students who can ace a very particular test on Algebra but never really understand deductive reasoning or the concept of a variable/function. As bad as US schooling is today, and as mediocre as the teaching profession in the US might be, humans-teaching-humans at least provides some check on the system and enables real learning.

So, stepping back, the tech elite's attitude toward US education scares me. It's going to do to our schools what that particular set of neo-liberal MBA programs did to so many iconic American businesses.

Conflating education and the US K-12 schooling institution causes many smart and driven people to:

1. under-estimate the effectiveness of good teaching, and

2. fantastically over-estimate the role of self-directed learning in their own lives[^a].

These two errors result in critics of US education over-estimating the effectiveness of (and under-estimating the dystopian potential of) depersonalized/scalable solutions to education.

--

[^a]: I want to say a bit more about #2. My opinion on this topic changed when I read through a bunch of my old code from middle/high school. I noticed that my programming ability took three significant step-changes during that time. The first happened during the time when I was taking Algebra 1 in 8th grade, when I went from mostly simple CRUD programs to really understanding how dynamic programming worked. I went from building PHP/SQL websites to being able to use data structures other than lists/hash tables and design algorithms for things other than CRUD operations. The second happened during the time I was taking Geometry; that's when I started really understanding how to decompose problems and compose solutions. The final step-change happened during my first programming internship during Junior year. So, I was entirely "self-taught", but clearly something in my formal education was driving my programming ability in ways I didn't realize without explicit and rather time-consuming reflection. And that final step-change was basically intense 1:1 tutoring from a mentor.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#92
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

I think this post wasn't about dedicated educational games, but rather education they occured naturally through gaming. E.g. Kerbal space program teaching basics of aerospace. One of the most prominent examples I had in my childhood was Fire Emblem for thr game boy. It's basically Kumon, you're constantly doing basic multiplication, addition, and substraction to tell whether a given unit will win in a fight. Similarly world of Warcraft teaches basic economics, if you want to turn a profit selling stuff on the AH.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#93
I disagree with this sort of thinking. I do see that there is some value from video games, but there are also certainly drawbacks. There's plenty of research confirming that handwriting helps people learn and process information. There's nothing wrong with lectures and worksheets. One early childhood handwriting study is here (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22119...).

Anecdotally, I see many drawbacks in using video games for learning. With my kids doing remote-learning, most of the math is taught/practiced with math games -- most of these have advertisements. It's so easy for kids to tab to another site/app that's more interesting. I can only imagine that if I had YouTube a click away from my studies as a 12-year-old, I'd get absolutely nothing done.

I also disagree that learning always needs to be "fun" and that we have to sugar-coat everything, including education, for kids. I don't understand why we can't teach kids to deal with difficulty -- to work on learning -- and then be proud of themselves when they've accomplished something.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#94

The author claims “where games mostly fall short is that they’re not that transferable to the real world. The skills you learn are highly specific to that game,” but “this will change,” because the cost of game development is decreasing. But his conclusion doesn’t follow; we might get more educational games, but not necessarily ones with skills that are more generalisable. As someone who’s spent the last 15 years mak…

@adrianhon: here's my trick. Instead of creating serious games. Teach people to be serious players! I have learned a ton from the following games: - Poker (statistics) - Any game (English) - Factorio (programming / software design) - Warcraft 3 (mental arithmetic and resource management) - World of Warcraft (market manipulation -- I created a temporary monopoly on an item and earned 500 gold within an hour as level 2…

For most people, poker will probably more likely lead into a gambling addiction (or at least a habit of regularly flushing money down the train at the tables) than an inquiry into probability and statistics. Most people are probably just not inquisitive enough to dig into the maths behind poker.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#95

Hot takes from people with no experience in the field are only interesting to other people who have no experience in the field. It seems developers are particularly prone to this hubris. I don't find many doctors writing about the future of programming languages, or teachers writing blogs about the future of medicine. Yet you can find thousands of these hot takes from developers about the future of education. Or pick…

Everybody can make children, so how hard can it be to educate them? /s

I totally agree with you. I think especially teachers face such know-it-alls much more than other occupations.

Not that I know it better, but thinking video games can replace human interaction is so silly. Probably all teachers knew it long before Hattie's meta study, the teacher is the key to good learning....

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#97
post #59

I own a educational game company. Long story short: it doesn't sell. At my company we identified, at least if your target is kids, two ways to sell edu games. 1. Sell them to institutions, like governments, schools, companies, whatever. Thing is, the features they look when choosing a game to buy, are ones most likely to make the game unfun, the end result is often boring stuff noone WANTS to play. 2. Sell them to th…

Hear Hear,

I came to the same conclusion for software that caters to teachers. Teachers don't buy that, the administration does. They don't feel the pain the teachers are having.

It also applies to programming lessons. Yes, everybody thinks it's important. No, it's hard to make a living selling it.

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#98
post #86

Perhaps, but if there is one thing we know, it's that massive online courses do not work well as we have currently tried them. Students don't come back year to year, and engagement throughout the course is very low [1]. Using a video game might help solve the engagement problem, but I would be hard pressed to think benefit of using a video game (increased engagement in the learning process) would be worth the 10-100x…

While I do agree, it is not without caveats. One issue is that "engagement" is not a good metric for measuring learning. One of the early studies made on the DragonBox math game system[1] showed less benefit than allowing re-practice opportunities with a traditional tutoring system with no reward system. This was despite students showing higher levels of engagement, enjoyment, and completing more exercises using Drag…

Indeed, and I think if you optimize for engagement, you are really failing to consider that once you target a metric, that metric is no longer useful.

For the MOOC example, what I meant by engagement was, "Week over week, does the student return?" or Weekly Active Users as a percentage of total students at the start of the course. For a MOOCs, the number of students disengaging is so high, that there is obviously a problem, and this is what I meant to communicate. Thanks for the article!

Re: Video Games Are the Future of Education

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@adrianhon: here's my trick. Instead of creating serious games. Teach people to be serious players! I have learned a ton from the following games: - Poker (statistics) - Any game (English) - Factorio (programming / software design) - Warcraft 3 (mental arithmetic and resource management) - World of Warcraft (market manipulation -- I created a temporary monopoly on an item and earned 500 gold within an hour as level 2…

- Eve Online (spreadsheets)

- KSP (orbital mechanics)
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