Why does Basecamp refuse (?) to add the in-app subscription? Is it only to avoid sharing their revenues with Apple or are there other reasons? (sorry I'm not that familiar with this topic and didn't follow the whole story)
They see it as ransom.
Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
91–100 of 338 posts
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
> >Apple allows these kinds of client apps — where you can't sign up, only sign in — for business services but not consumer products. Does that mean Netflix is a "business service" and not a consumer product?
Netflix is excluded by the "Reader exception". > Apps may allow a user to access previously purchased content or content subscriptions (specifically: magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video, access to professional databases, VoIP, cloud storage, and approved services such as classroom management apps), provided that you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other th…
> provided that you agree not to directly or indirectly target iOS users to use a purchasing method other than in-app purchase
Netflix does exactly this. In fact, Hey uses nearly the exact same wording that Netflix does, almost word-for-word.
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#93I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…
By itself, this argument makes sense. But the problem is how wildly unevenly it is applied. If you're "big enough" you get a pass. Also, they got their first version through without any issues or a peep about this rule. And only when they needed to push a codefix is when they got held up. If you're going to have rules, they MUST be applied evenly.
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Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)
Again, the rules are clear, readers are a specific exemption. I would say that Microsoft Office stands out in tht list as the only thing delivery functionality not content - but I don't know the details of that app.
What about Fastmail? (https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/fastmail-email-calendar/id9313...)
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have a specific section in the rules for "Reader" apps like Netflix and Spotify. It's not unclear, it's been there since 2018.
How is "reading my email from the hey server" different from "reading a video from the netflix server"? Neither app functions without a separate, non apple subscription. The main criticism of Hey, from apples perspective, is that the app doesnt just work when you download it, but the same applies to netflix. I personally think Hey could get around it by adding some other kind of feature to the app, like a way to read…
Read the full statement that Apple gave to Hey and the media [1]. If Hey made their email client a standard works with any email account then it'd be fine without in-app purchases. The specific Hey service could be purchased outside the App Store if they want to avoid giving Apple a cut.
[1] https://twitter.com/markgurman/status/1273719726196187136
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)
Well yeah, people & companies with a lot of money get a different set of rules. That's the same in the app store as it is in real life. I'd be much more interested in seeing in change in real life before some silly app store.
Maybe it's the number of users. If the iPhone was the phone you can't watch Netflix with (or any similar service), maybe a lot of people would buy an Android device.
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google and Microsoft control(ed) more of the markets that they operated in: in the 1990s to 2000s what percentage of PCs ran Windows? What percentage of search does Google have? Apple/iOS currently has less that 20%: * https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/blogs/d... * https://www.counterpointresearch.com/global-smartphone-share... * https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor Android, spl…
Apple/iOS has 100% on their platform. Noone stopped you back then from buying an Apple PC, installing Linux or BSD etc. either. Noone stopped you from installing an alternative browser on either Windows or Android, yet they got slapped for it.
This is like saying McDonald's have a monopoly because you can only buy McDonalds in a McDonalds restaurant... go somewhere else if you don't want the McDonalds menu.
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#98I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…
It is very unclear. The rule has been that you cannot advertise that it requires a subscription or provide a link. There are literally a dozen apps that I am personally aware of that require subscriptions and don’t allow in app subscriptions. - Netflix - Sling TV - ATT Now (DirecTVNow) - ACloudGuru - Kindle - Youtube TV - Spotify - Microsoft Office - Hulu Live TV (not regular Hulu)
These are all exempted app categories. Email is not:
> “You download the app and it doesn’t work, that’s not what we want on the store,” says Schiller. This, he says, is why Apple requires in-app purchases to offer the same purchasing functionality as they would have elsewhere.
To be clear, this is against the App Store rules for most apps. The exceptions here are apps that are viewed as ‘readers’ that only display external content of certain types like music, books and movies — and apps that only offer bulk pricing options that are paid for by institutions or corporations rather than the end user.
Schiller is clear on our call that Hey does not fit these rules.
“We didn’t extend these exceptions to all software,” he notes about the ‘reader’ type apps — examples of which include Netflix. “Email is not and has never been an exception included in this rule.”
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#99I don't think picking a fight with Apple as a PR strategy is a good move. The rules on the app store are very clear, if you're charging a subscription for functionality you're providing through an iOS app, that subscription must be available through Apple's payment system. I know people don't like that, but it's not unexpected. So given that Hey knew the rules, it seems a bit manipulative for them to submit their app…
Explain Spotify and Netflix? The Hey app copies Netflix almost exactly, even in the language used for the subscription? How is that very clear for a rule?
Section 3.1.3a[1] of the App store review guidelines. There is an explicit distinction drawn between free apps that allow you to access purchased content.
[1]https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#rea...
Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey
#100The problem is, Apple taking a cut from service where they
don't own the device (you bought it from them; you own it)
don't provide the network (you contract for that yourself)
don't provide the content
All this splitting hairs over exactly who they strong-arm and who they don't is beside the point.