Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

superorganizers.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 211 posts

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#91

Post by hcknwscommenter »

redis_mlc wrote: post #56
majormajor wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US cannot do testing and tracing because they waited too late. "Cannot"? Why wouldn't it just require a much bigger effort? I've been flabbergasted by the lack of wartime thinking this whole time in the US. We know how to mobilize things and build logistical supply chains, why can't we apply that to a in-country medical battle? Not only did the US governments (at all levels) demonstrate incompetence early, we'v…

> "Cannot"? Why wouldn't it just require a much bigger effort? Corona is basically endemic in the US. You can test nursing homes and airport arrivals, and do followup testing on a small population. You cannot test 320 million people, and do followup weekly testing on them. Perhaps you're inspired by the success in NZ or Taiwan. The US has a totally different situation. You seem to think that "doing something" is bett…

"You cannot test 320 million people, and do followup weekly testing on them."

I mean, that is factually wrong. We could actually do that. It wouldn't even be that expensive. Of course, such a thing isn't really necessary. If everyone who wanted a test could get one without delay and get results back in hours, that would be sufficient to implement test and trace effectively.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#92

Post by SilasX »

smabie wrote: post #44
throwawaylalala wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually not easy; not every place has facilities for that. Wife is a nurse, and we went through this discussion of the best process when she was an ICU nurse during the Ebola scare five years ago. Remember too, sometimes folks are on the way to work in their scrubs, not necessarily leaving work.

It's really not that hard to change your clothes in a bathroom. Especially in a hospital, where they certainly have a wheelchair accessible large private one. Also, many large hospitals also have a gym, so you could just change there.

The entire staff, though? When they all have to do it at the same time, when a shift changes?

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#93

Post by joe_the_user »

spaetzleesser wrote: post #61
nradov wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Through US government incompetence we missed our chance to contain and suppress the virus back in February. Now the pandemic is so widespread that it's impractical to do enough contract tracing and isolation to eradicate the virus. In many areas the authorities aren't even bothering to try. So we're on a path to herd immunity whether we like it or not. Obviously this is a bad state of affairs. But it's important to u…

"But it's important to understand the reality we're in rather than indulging in fantasies." This seems an important point to remember in most US public discussions. If people can't even agree on basic facts, how can you make decisions?

Indeed, the reality for the average person is you're confronted by different authorities that don't agree on facts or goals. The situation seems to promise a series of rolling disasters with Covid just being one.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#94

Post by jariel »

40four wrote: post #63
m4rtink wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I thin many forget when they speak against lockdown and for "heard immunity" - that this would not only result in a huge ammount of unnecessary deaths, but also pretty much wear out if not outright kill a signifficant part of medical personel. It's basically condemning them to working nonstop for months if not years, watching people die all day long & being in infection danger at all times while at work.…

I think it is more complicated than that. Almost all states very early on had some level of 'lock-down', stay at home order, or what have you. This has limited movement of people, and as a side effect, or maybe even direct order from governors, closed down/ limited many business. Including hospitals. Hospitals in America, believe it nor not, are for profit businesses. It is un-intuitive, but many of them are in serio…

"I know this is doesn't make sense at the surface level,"

No it makes perfect sense, and it doesn't matter if it's 'nonprofit or for-profit' - the inefficient use of resources is just the same.

Hospitals are the most expensive places in the world to run, with very highly trained personnel, gear, etc.. In a socialized system, if they are not used, it's a massive inefficiency.

Now imagine a system where 10's of millions of people are in economic pain - but they still have to foot the bill for unused medical services via taxes.

It's just shifting around deck chairs with respect to where the pain will be borne.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#95

Post by rscho »

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #88
stickfigure wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fact is missing something essential; Kaiser Permanente is a nonprofit but it sure isn't what you think of when you use that term. Also, it's something of a minor nit - nonprofit corporations need revenue too. My wife is a nurse for Dignity Health (another "nonprofit" hospital here in California) and has been effectively laid off for the last couple months. It's great that the ER is empty, but in the mean time nu…

>Kaiser Permanente is a nonprofit but it sure isn't what you think of when you use that term. Huh? It is exactly what I think of when I use the term non-profit in the context of a healthcare maintenance organization. I truly have no idea what you mean by your quoted statement.

He/she means: KP generates a lot of money for some important people, and their marketing and management strategy is as aggressive as for-profit institutions

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#96

Post by kmonsen »

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #89
thdrdt wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More and more researchers start to believe that the virus (also) spreads as aerosols. They also believe the amount of virus that enters your body affects how sick you get. This might also be the reason that healthy health workers can get sick when they are exposed a lot. So I have no doubt that working as health worker without enough protective gear is scary when you see healthy collegues getting sick. But that does…

I think you are missing the point. We are long past the point of containment. We will get to herd immunity no matter what. The question becomes, how to do it safely. The answer is to have in place sufficient capacity. One can have sufficient capacity easily if R is kept low. There are other ways of getting there (i.e., actually increasing capacity), or a combination thereof.

We will hopefully not get hers immunity. Spain, Italy and Sweden are not close yet and they were pretty close to capacity, same with NYC. There is no safe way to get to herd immunity, it’s vaccine or nothing.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#97

Post by kmonsen »

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #90
tomrod wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US did not lock down. A portion opted to stay at home if they could afford it, several industries were deemed essential (often with ridiculous inclusions), and the brunt is being borne by folks in poverty. We had between 40% and 60% reduction in urban mobility, much less in rural areas, and an increase in stay at home rates on par with a census block groups median household income. Then we re-opened too early. Th…

There is totally an endgame. Lockdown worked in NYC. That is huge. NYC is crushing the curve. 1 in 600 people in NYC have died of COVID (NOT GOOD). However, it is estimated that 1 in 5 is already immune. That's great news! A huge step towards herd immunity.

It means NYC must do this three times more to get to herd immunity, and strike the right balance each time. Still it is far from safe since people can come from the rest of the country so it’s not a real herd immunity.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#98

Post by watwut »

thdrdt wrote: post #77
m4rtink wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I thin many forget when they speak against lockdown and for "heard immunity" - that this would not only result in a huge ammount of unnecessary deaths, but also pretty much wear out if not outright kill a signifficant part of medical personel. It's basically condemning them to working nonstop for months if not years, watching people die all day long & being in infection danger at all times while at work.…

More and more researchers start to believe that the virus (also) spreads as aerosols. They also believe the amount of virus that enters your body affects how sick you get. This might also be the reason that healthy health workers can get sick when they are exposed a lot. So I have no doubt that working as health worker without enough protective gear is scary when you see healthy collegues getting sick. But that does…

> But that does not mean that going for herd immunity is a bad thing.

One way or the other, end game is herd immunity. But when you let it just "go freely" you overshot - more people then is necessary for herd immunity will get sick.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#99

Post by watwut »

briandear wrote: post #52
musha68k wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree, we have to think of others not ourselves when we diligently put on our masks.

We diligently put on our masks out of a sense of theater and emotion rather than actual effectiveness. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-question... And the WHO continues to maintain that healthy people do not need to wear masks. And asymptomatic spread of the virus is “very rare” according to the WHO: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-pat... Masks in the general public is jus…

These attempts to frame masks as emotional or fear are very manipulative. Please argue by facts instead of emotional appeals to peoples insecurity.

Re: I'm Married to an ER Doc in NYC

#100

Post by kmonsen »

majormajor wrote: post #62
redis_mlc wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Cannot"? Why wouldn't it just require a much bigger effort? Corona is basically endemic in the US. You can test nursing homes and airport arrivals, and do followup testing on a small population. You cannot test 320 million people, and do followup weekly testing on them. Perhaps you're inspired by the success in NZ or Taiwan. The US has a totally different situation. You seem to think that "doing something" is bett…

This isn't "hope" that I'm expressing. This is me saying that *if we never try, we'll never succeed, at ANYTHING, not just at this. You're convinced hard equals impossible. Which is definitely part of why the US is so incompetent when it comes to this (or healthcare in general). People don't care that we suck. I just find that sad and horrifying. Let's say you take NYC, where the cases have been tailing off, and you…

Contract testing is no go in the US, herd immunity is not realistic. It’s open up as much as we can and wait for vaccine. Is not going to be good if there is a second wave.

I think South Korea, Hong king and Singapore already had second wave.

Post reply on HN