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America is giving up on the pandemic?

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#91

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #74
6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #43

I support the protests, and believe they can be done safely, but we can't forget about the virus. A quick googling gives me numbers between 300 and 1000 people dying of police violence per year. Call it 1k-2k per year. If we eliminate 50-100 years of that, we match what coronavirus has done in a couple months. However, places are starting to relax the shelter-in-place rules already, so people going out now isn't comp…

I don't know, numerically, if the large protests ongoing now are hugely more contributory to existing open protests. For one, the large protests currently are highly masked, while the open protests were highly unmasked (plus they put pressure on states to relax containment standards without any plan for contact tracing or similar).

Agreed, that's why I followed the numbers with a big "however." I'm trying to get better at writing clearly.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#92

Post by twblalock »

The article’s authors are losing sight of the original justification for the lockdowns: “flatten the curve” was about preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed.

Of course cases will increase when people leave their homes. But have the hospitals been overwhelmed in any of the states that started to reopen several weeks ago? No! In that case the lockdowns have served their purpose.

The authors of this article are arguing more from a pro-lockdown position than from an anti-virus position — they seem to care more about defending the lockdowns than they do about actually solving the problem, even though it’s becoming obvious that new solutions, like partial reopening, are working.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#93

Post by mydongle »

pstuart wrote: post #89
mydongle wrote: post #79

Judging by how health experts have given protestors a pass to forgo social distancing , yeah, I can say it's all in the toilet now.

I haven't seen anything to that effect. Care to share?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-lette...

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-hea...

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/1288-public-health-pro...

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#94

Post by SPQT »

monadic2 wrote: post #34
mberning wrote: post #2

Why shouldn’t they? People were browbeaten for having the audacity to want to return to work. Now politicians are out marching shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other people. We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. It’s good to know that “believe science” and “stay home stay safe” are completely negotiable based on what is politically expedi…

> We also were told that Georgia was going to be a disaster for reopening too soon and that has not come to pass. Tell that to the families of the dead. I’m sure they’ll be happy to know they died propping up your portfolios while people starve on the streets. It’s the most american thing ever to insist on returning to work above all other values—there’s that death cult for you. The dow demands blood!

You do understand that the poor are the one that suffer from the lockdown and its side effects? I'm making sweet sweet benjies while "working" from 3 bed home with garden and managed to gobble up stocks on the cheap when we were in sky is falling mode.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#95

Post by goatinaboat »

mberning wrote: post #17
goatinaboat wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “open letter” signed by 1200 experts stating that protesting was no risk, except for protests against the lockdown itself, was also mind boggling in its audacity.

Right. As if the virus has its own agency and cares why you are gathering.

What I don’t get is if the virus is so woke, why it was infecting people without their consent?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#96

Post by thethethethe »

alchemyromcom wrote: post #66
nr2x wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting a haircut won't kill you, the police will. Also, for the most part, anti-racism protestors are wearing masks, anti-lockdown people, for the most part, are not.

Losing your livelihood can kill you, however. If you are a small business owner, for example, and it's illegal to operate that business, your life is also in danger and your situation deserves empathy. Empathy is not finite resource. We can extend it to all people in bad situations, not just people we prefer.

> If you are a small business owner, for example, and it's illegal to operate that business, your life is also in danger and your situation deserves empathy

This is a false dichotomy. Sure, these people (and their workers) deserve empathy and support, but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to reopen. You can support business owners via financial aid or other measures while their business is closed.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#97

Post by DennisAleynikov »

thethethethe wrote: post #76
rohitb91 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that public assembly is essential regardless of what is going on. But why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? Why did nurses block them from protesting but not one would block someone now?

> why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? People denounced those protesters because they were protesting because many of them thought the virus was a hoax or because they couldn’t get a hair cut or buy lawn fertilizer. The current protests are addressing systemic racism black people have faced in America for hundreds of years an…

there is no difference to covid, it doesn't ask 'oh were you protesting the right thing?'

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#98

Post by notahacker »

gdubs wrote: post #27
rohitb91 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that public assembly is essential regardless of what is going on. But why were the people protesting the lock downs and business shutdowns and the limiting of freedoms the yahoos and crazy murderers? Why did nurses block them from protesting but not one would block someone now?

There was a lot of science denialism in those protests, conspiracy theories, and (based anecdotally on photos which are the best we have to go on) mask usage seemed a lot lower.

Also, whilst mass gatherings themselves can act as a vector for disease transmission regardless of what the cause is and despite some forms of masks, the objection to the lockdown protests wasn't that participants might put themselves and their immediate families at risk so much as their stated goal was to end the lockdown, and thus see millions of people not involved in the protest expected to go back to work and encouraged to socialise.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#99

Post by SPQT »

throw112473 wrote: post #48
SPQT wrote: post #16

Not a surprise, COVID19 is pretty soft compared to the historic pandemics. I'm actually suprised that this continued for so long, I gave the lockdowns 4 week, but I guess the media propaganda blessed it with longer life. Just to clarify about Covid: -The highest deathrate from it is around 1%, CDC reports 0.30 lately. -Hits predominantly the old parts of the population -The death comes in a normal way - pneumonia ->…

Fascinating. This means China’s numbers were actually quite accurate.

No, China initially said a bunch o' stuff like 3-5%

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#100

Post by jdsully »

austincheney wrote: post #42
Barrin92 wrote: post #4

The concerns are right but public assembly is critical in a democracy, and cannot be put on hold indefinitely. It's probably the most fundamental right in any civil society and with all these takes I have seen on twitter about COVID and the protests, a lot of people seem to seriously unerestimate the value that free assembly has. Covid as bad as it is will be an issue of the near future, civil rights gains or losses…

I strongly disagree. Many people seem to believe this without any substance. Some people, as evidenced by comments here, only believe this when it aligns to their subjectively self valued concern. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_assembly According to Wikipedia assembly is an example of a civil liberty. The preeminent doctrine on civil liberties is On Liberty . According to John Stuart Mill the greatest des…

It can certainly go too far, but if a system of government angers a majority of the population one has to consider who exactly it is serving.
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