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Why no looting in Japan?

caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com

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Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#91

Post by angus77 »

nandemo wrote: post #64
tc wrote: post #10

From Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! ; Feynman and a colleague are staying at a traditional Japanese hotel in Kyoto: The next morning the young woman taking care of our room fixes the bath, which was right in our room. Sometime later she returns with a tray to deliver breakfast. I'm partly dressed. She turns to me and says, politely, "Ohayo, gozai masu," which means, "Good morning." Pais is just coming out of the…

Times have changed. Please don't try to reproduce that in an upscale hotel in Tokyo. They'll just call security (I've heard the story in first-hand).

Why would they call security for you being naked in your own room?

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#92

Post by angus77 »

po wrote: post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Nobody has to lock their bikes?

I've had three bikes stolen since I first came here in 1998---one of them twice! The cops found one of my bikes a year and a half after it was stolen. Within six months it was stolen again!

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#93

Post by rick888 »

kentbuckle wrote: post #55
danenania wrote: post #21

Aside from the strong cultural values and homogeneity of that culture, I would think socioeconomic factors must have a major impact. I don't know how the statistics stack up in Japan, but looting is generally an activity of the poor and disenfranchised. Anyone have data pertinent to this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/22/world/asia/22poverty.html The poverty rate in Japan isn't that much lower than the US (15.7% vs. 17.1% according to the article). However, people below that line in Japan are somewhat unwilling to admit being in poverty.

It's not only people that are poor, but people that have a poor culture that loot. I can bet there were lots of poor people in Japan that didn't loot or steal from their neighbors.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#94

Post by bilbo0s »

One word : 'Individualism'

The article mentions UK floods, Chile and Haiti earthquakes, and Katrina. The UK, Chile, Haiti and US are all 'Individual at the Center' societies. By contrast, Japan is not so 'Individualist' a society.

You may have less looting in a place like Japan after a natural disaster of this scale. However, if there is ever say ... oh ... a recession, you will have 100,000,000 people standing around waiting for the authorities to 'fix it'. You will observe far fewer people launching startups for instance, than you would in similar recessionary environment in say ... Chile.

Just wanted to make sure everyone realized that 'it cuts both ways' as it were. All societies have strengths and weaknesses. In fact, as in this case, the strength of any society usually is its weakness.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#95

Post by mapgrep »

po wrote: post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

"There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe."

Bangladesh is 98% ethnic Bengali; you can read about their crime here http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1011.html#c... ("U.S. citizens should avoid walking alone after dark, carrying large sums of money, or wearing expensive jewelry").

Lesotho is 99.7 percent Basotho, with an intentional homicide rate seven times higher than the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

Meanwhile, Singapore, split between large numbers of Chinese, Malays and Indians is one of the safest places in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Singapore). Also safe is Switzerland, which is so ethnically diverse there are three official languages, each widely spoken within the country. (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1034.html#c...) .

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#96

Post by angus77 »

kmfrk wrote: post #33
staunch wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This actually happened. When we were living in Tokyo my wife lost her wallet. A day later she found that it was sitting in the basket of her bicycle outside our building. This was a busy street in a business district (Nihonbashi) with hundreds of people going past it and it was a large new coach wallet with at least a few hundred in cash. Not that someone wouldn't have eventually stolen it though.

>Not that someone wouldn't have eventually stolen it though. Japan is only nearly Utopian. Let's be careful with the orientalism. The suicide rate[1][2] is one thing that personally bothers me. Japan is fundamentally different from the West, and this has its advantages and disadvantages. [1]: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_count... [2]: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_OE…

If you follow the "more information" link on Japan, you'll find that the high suicide rate is a recent thing that's happened since the Bubble burst.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#97

Post by kentosi »

chrismealy wrote: post #73

This was already debunked: 'Professor Pflugfelder evidently needs to study Japanese history a little better because after the Great Kanto Earthquake of 1923 there was widespread looting and rioting, and during the firebombings of WWII looting was a common practice. If these are deep cultural roots, they only go back about two generations' http://partialobjects.com/2011/03/is-looting-our-default-rea...

I just read the article, and the one main point s/he makes that struck me is that in Japan, as opposed to Katrina, the citizens KNOW that they'll be looked after.

Comparing the situation to here in Australia where we had floods and hurricanes, it's the same: we know that the government will look after us.

So I agree with him/her. It's got nothing to do with culture/etc. Because if you take away all the efforts the government and international community are making, then I bet the situation in Japan would be totally different.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#98

Post by DerekL »

michaeldhopkins wrote: post #19
olivercameron wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So have the people of England, what's your point?

No, they have not. Roman Briton was a different society than pre-Roman Briton. The Anglo-Saxons came about 1500 years ago and nearly completely replaced the Britons, genetically and culturally. The Norman invasion was about 950 years ago and greatly changed Anglo-Saxon culture, although not as much as the AS changed post-Roman Briton. There were several other invaders (Danes, etc.) as well. By contrast, the Japanese…

According to a 2003 study of genetics in Britain, the Britons weren't driven out. There's a great amount from Anglo-Saxons and Vikings, but the majority of the genes are from the Britons.

Here's the paper from University College London: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/capelli-CB-03.pdf>

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#99

Post by po »

mapgrep wrote: post #95
po wrote: post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

"There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe." Bangladesh is 98% ethnic Bengali; you can read about their crime here http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1011.html#c... ("U.S. citizens should avoid walking alone after dark, carrying large sums of money, or wearing expe…

Please note that I'm not saying all monocultures are safe. I am certainly also not saying multi-cultures are unsuccessful. This has nothing to do with safety or success, more efficiency gains and tolerance costs. I'm trying to raise a nuanced point and I went out of my way to say neither is better than the other.

I think the efficiency gained depends on the culture gaining it. Japan has decided that they value safety. In Bangladesh there are probably different assumptions you can make. I don't know what they are and I don't want to speculate because I don't have any experience living there.

edit: also wanted to add... even though Switzerland is ethnically diverse and speaks many different languages, I would still call it a mono-culture. The swiss are also sometimes criticized for being unique in their ways and resistant to change. Culture is not the same as race or language.

Re: Why no looting in Japan?

#100

Post by po »

angus77 wrote: post #92
po wrote: post #61

Japan takes a lot of criticism for being a closed off culture. After living here for a while I have started to believe that it is necessary to support these values. Multiculturalism means lowest common denominator. There are efficiencies you can gain by having a monoculture. Nobody has to lock their bikes, subways can have nice cloth seats and you can walk around in any neighborhood and be safe. When I came to Tokyo,…

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Nobody has to lock their bikes? I've had three bikes stolen since I first came here in 1998---one of them twice! The cops found one of my bikes a year and a half after it was stolen. Within six months it was stolen again!

OK, I shouldn't have said that because it is an overgeneralization and is overshadowing the point I was trying to make. Coming from New York, I still think people generally don't lock their bikes. They certainly don't chain them to posts with 1/2" steel chains. There is definitely still theft and crime though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

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