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Free America Now (@elonmusk)

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Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#91

Post by bJGVygG7MQVF8c »

Miner49er wrote: post #54
dr_dshiv wrote: post #46

Writing from the Netherlands. I believe the American rhetoric has fully been divided between the "if you aren't careful, you are killing people" on the left and "open the economy" on the right. I'm surprised that it isn't clear why the left is in an extremely dangerous position. They can't win unless lots of people are dying. Otherwise, the non-zoom working class will vote in anyone who prioritizes the economy. Isn't…

From what I've seen, the non-Zoom working class is the group most against re-opening. They're the one's most at risk from the virus.

That doesn't comport at all with my observations so far.

The non-Zoom working class is also the group most impacted by the economic disruption of shutdowns, which in many (most?) places is needless and everywhere is having regressive economic outcomes, benefiting large companies at the expense of small businesses.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#92

Post by take_a_breath »

matz1 wrote: post #80
take_a_breath wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, no actual data? The solution is to risk even more lives by sending people back to work? Again, I’d like to see the data behind that calculation. If you’re interested in people’s lives, maybe we can work on universal healthcare, increasing minimum wages, or guaranteeing sick-leave?

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

Provide data that shows it is a larger risk. Without that data you are arguing based on ideology not facts.

The thing about not working is that we have government mechanisms to help those people. We can beef up social security, unemployment benefits, or direct payments. Then people can go back to work afterwards. Work will always exist. It exists even now with a “closed” economy.

The thing about dying is that it’s pretty final.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#93

Post by IfIEverCatchYou »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #16
criddell wrote: post #2

What's the context of this tweet? Is he just trolling?

I think his opinion is that the Coronavirus threat has been overblown and is perhaps the biggest direct threat to the future of Tesla. Following, "We're working on ventilators, even though I think there will not be a shortage by the time we can make enough to matter" I haven't checked recently, but I believe the vast majority of hospitals are not overwhelmed nor short of ventilators -- but is there any source of data…

Like herd immunity, the large stockpile of ventilators will help forestall future pandemic lockdowns.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#94

Post by kortex »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #25
jinushaun wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more Musk tweets, the further away he gets from the visionary with dreams of Mars and the closer he gets to Trump. I used to be a fan, but I’ve found it impossible to defend Musk in recent years.

I think the key is to allow enough intellectual diversity on the left so that someone like musk doesn't get pushed so easily into an outsider. Being antirepublican, antiTrump and antilockdown is a valid position.

But how antilockdown? Like, everyone can do what they want, no new rules, back to pre-covid?

I think that voluntary-only measures will cost a LOT of lives. I think everyone agrees more restriction == more lives saved, this is the classic argument for antiterrorism. Where people are diverging is where the best place to draw that line.

Maybe everyone should begin with a disclaimer of how many people they are willing to let die relative to essential-workers-only.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#95

Post by smcl »

cwhiz wrote: post #21

NY, NJ, PA, CT, and MA have 53% of cases. It’s time to stop treating this like every state or region is in the same situation. Edit: Some people apparently need to be reminded that Europe is a place. Individual countries are reopening as they see fit based on how they are handling the virus. It honestly is starting to feel like some people prefer the pain than the idea of safely reopening certain states and regions.

> Some people apparently need to be reminded that Europe is a place

Europe is a place?!

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#96

Post by pinkfoot »

matz1 wrote: post #80
take_a_breath wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, no actual data? The solution is to risk even more lives by sending people back to work? Again, I’d like to see the data behind that calculation. If you’re interested in people’s lives, maybe we can work on universal healthcare, increasing minimum wages, or guaranteeing sick-leave?

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

Ok, I'll bite: where are the coffins of all the people who have died in the last four weeks from not working?

Because I can show you lots of coffins from people in NY and Italy who went to work whilst the pandemic was raging.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#97

Post by SolaceQuantum »

cwhiz wrote: post #21

NY, NJ, PA, CT, and MA have 53% of cases. It’s time to stop treating this like every state or region is in the same situation. Edit: Some people apparently need to be reminded that Europe is a place. Individual countries are reopening as they see fit based on how they are handling the virus. It honestly is starting to feel like some people prefer the pain than the idea of safely reopening certain states and regions.

From what I understand Germany’s infection rate has actually increased as a result of the reopening moves.[0]

0. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/germanys-coronavirus-infecti...

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#99

Post by bJGVygG7MQVF8c »

Miner49er wrote: post #75
dr_dshiv wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's different in the Netherlands. But here there seems to be a lot of contempt for not being able to do construction, cut hair or otherwise work. Luckily, the weather is nice, which generally puts people in good spirits.

Maybe I'm wrong, but in the U.S. it seems most people that want things re-opened is a part of the Zoom working class and the upper classes. In the US most blue collar work has been deemed essential anyway. Construction for example, is deemed essential. Layoffs are still happening like crazy, I suppose. I'd say the left generally wants to leave non-essential parts of the economy closed, and give people UBI or freeze r…

> in the U.S. it seems most people that want things re-opened is a part of the Zoom working class and the upper classes.

This does not seem accurate to me at all. The upper classes have fled the hot-spot cities. The upper-class-aspirant professionals are stuck in the cities working via Zoom. The risk of premature opening there is real, so they're not pushing for reopening.

The people pushing for re-opening are mainly non-Zoom non-essential working class people who are feeling the economic pain of the prolonged shutdowns in places where they're not needed.

Also, to a lesser extent, people who object to the restrictions on freedoms on cultural-ideological grounds, either on principle or on a cost-benefit basis.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#100

Post by falcolas »

matz1 wrote: post #80
take_a_breath wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, no actual data? The solution is to risk even more lives by sending people back to work? Again, I’d like to see the data behind that calculation. If you’re interested in people’s lives, maybe we can work on universal healthcare, increasing minimum wages, or guaranteeing sick-leave?

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

So you want to risk people’s lives by forcing them to work?

And yes, it is forcing. Amazon, a fantastic example right now, is removing the ability for warehouse workers to stay at home, unless they take unpaid leave. No pay, no healthcare benefits, unless you go into a warehouse and risk your lives.

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