Career advice for people with bad luck • Hacker News Board

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#91

Post by collyw » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

neltnerb wrote: post #79

collyw wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. Two jobs ago had wonderful people and we still regularly meet up for drinks (despite the company being a load for shite to work for). Next job was a lot more family people and we rarely went for drinks together. I am not really in touch with them any more (perfectly nice people but the bonding never happened).

Of course, the family people probably were friends with each other.

Everyone at family company was friendly at lunch, it's just the we didn't socialize after work at all (well a couple of times). The younger company regularly went drinking together.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#92

Post by maxlamb » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

rb808 wrote: post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

I think it's more nuanced than that. If you hang out with them outside of work on a regular basis, then maybe they are genuine friends and that's great. The problem discussed is a different situation: You get along great with your colleagues, however you never spend time with them outside of work. Then let's say that getting along well with them nudges you to stay at the company longer even though your company/position is not a good fit for you and you should be looking for better career opportunities. You finally decide to leave the company 2 years later, then you realize that these colleagues weren't really friends after all and you should have started looking for better opportunities way earlier.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#93

Post by werber » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

k__ wrote: post #68

werber wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had such a different experience than you. I feel that being friends with co-workers has always been more about mutual aid than competition.

Probably depends on the job. We devs always got along well, even the idiots were kind of included. But I had the impression, things were different sales or the management team.

I don't know, I tend to cross over into whatever part of the business if someone seems cool and just ask them to grab lunch or a drink. One of my closest friends is a management person I worked for and asked to grab drinks with when she quit. She's 20 years my senior and now we take girls trips and know each others family and friends. I think it's all about putting yourself out there and occasionally sitting through a painfully awkward lunch.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#94

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:23 PM UTC

username90 wrote: post #90

Step 1: Get a well paying job at a big tech company. There is very little luck involved in this, just get really good at algorithms. No need for a famous school, specific degree etc. It requires intelligence, if you don't have that then you need luck. Step 2: Save more than two thirds of your take home salary, you can still live way better than the people sweeping the office floor. Step 3: You now have a ton of money…

>Step 1: Get a well paying job at a big tech company. There is very little luck involved in this, just get really good at algorithms.

Let me stop you right there. Maybe that works in SV but in most of Europe(the world?) you aint getting in to any well paying job at a big tech company without a degree from a prestigious university or previous experience at equally big and famous companies.

Companies here don't have the FAANG resources to whiteboard everyone who bothers to apply and check their algorithm skills when all the future employee needs to do is work on some CRUD app so they initially select based on how impressive your resume is and run you through some coding test later to weed out the bullshitters.

Although I live and work in a city with one of the top 300 technical universities in the world where graduating means you have to study algorithms, advanced math, etc. almost no jobs here outside or research and academia require knowledge about algorithms. Companies just want an experienced node/python plumber ASAP.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#95

Post by neltnerb » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #64

ashtonkem wrote: post #2

> The company is not your family. Some of the people in the company are your friends in the current context. It’s like your dorm in college. Hopefully some of them will still be your friends after. But don’t stay because you’re comfortable. This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone…

> It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Isn't that how most people form friends normally though? Through a shared experience? Especially a tough or formative one? Friends you meet at school, in your first year at uni, in bootcamp, on a sports team, these are how most people meet their life-long friends.

Yes, but I think there's a lot of variation in what people want out of work-friends.

My parents are super social to the point of inviting over colleagues for dinner regularly, but I think they're also so social (and worked for nonprofits that are more like family) that they simply have so many options that the ones they pick are much closer work-friends that often last decades.

Other people really do just want to go home and do their own thing. As long as no one is rude, there's room for both.

I find that after spending that many hours with work friends I rarely want to spend extra time with them when I could spend that time connecting with existing friends I haven't seen in a while who I'm already very close to. Balance.

I've rarely had a work friend turn into a real friend though, but I'm also totally happy with that. I need breaks from people and don't want to get sucked into the work as life mindset. I'd rather meet new people at... pick a hobby. Dancing, singing, karate, whatever. That's how I make new friends, through hobbies rather than work because work friends dominating my social life feels incredibly unbalanced.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#96

Post by pjc50 » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #57

pjc50 wrote: post #14

Retention offers: yeah. I've been given retention offers twice, and the second time round I explicitly said "I don't want money, I want you to change the way this team and product is managed, like the previous times we discussed this, but that's not going to happen, is it?" I ended up getting much more money, less responsibility, a nicer less open plan office, and a less dysfunctional process. Risk: yes, sometimes yo…

> a nicer less open plan office, Impressive.

To be clear, this wasn't the retention offer, this was the new job! And it's still technically open, but nicely spaced with sound-absorbing partitions. The dysfunctional place had a pingpong table within earshot.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#97

Post by diogenescynic » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

Graduated with my BA in 2009 and definitely dealt with bad luck. Now, I work at a good company and have a good job (for now), but they are clearly making moves to shift the jobs to Texas. I’m just finishing my MBA and finding it really hard to find a job. Everyone wants you to have 5-8 years of experience doing exactly what they’re hiring for and don’t seem willing to train if you have 60-80% of the qualifications. Really sucks because trying to shift from one finance discipline (treasury/tax/FP&A/Corp Finance) doesn’t seem like companies are willing to consider.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#98

Post by neltnerb » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

moneywoes wrote: post #8

ashtonkem wrote: post #2

> The company is not your family. Some of the people in the company are your friends in the current context. It’s like your dorm in college. Hopefully some of them will still be your friends after. But don’t stay because you’re comfortable. This one hit hard. It’s amazing how many of the close work friends I had over the years were only close because of the shitty circumstances we endured together. Once that was gone…

Been working 3 months at my first job and this realization hit me. I enjoy spending time with my coworkers but is it all in vain?

No, but you have to put in a lot of extra effort to be friends with them outside the context of work or else the context disappearing will give you no established excuse to hang out.

It's not impossible to do, I know plenty of people who make real friends at work. But it takes intent to make it work like any human relationship, invite them to dinner, go to movies, play video games, etc. Go overboard to get over the activation barrier but be selective because you can't do that with two dozen people at once.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#99

Post by varjag » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #53

rb808 wrote: post #23

A lot of talk here that colleagues aren't friends. What is wrong with you people? If you like your colleagues you can invite them to do stuff after you or they leave. They probably haven't invited you because they never got around to it either. Most of the older generation people met through work is the only way to make friends. No wonder loneliness is so rampant now.

Depends a lot on your workplace. If its a younger workforce it usually easy to make friends and people do things together. Once people start having children it seems to change quite a lot.

Yeah once you push 30 your next cohort of friends going to be that bingo gang in your retirement home.

Re: Career advice for people with bad luck

#100

Post by efficax » Fri, Apr 24, 2020, 1:31 PM UTC

The point made in here about how your company is not your family cannot be emphasized enough. Corporate culture, and especially tech startup culture, likes to make you believe that we're all family and best friends and love each other.

That attitude stays up right until the day they lay you off without warning.

It's great to work with great people that you enjoy being around, and we should treat each other all with human dignity and respect, and with a bit of fun. But your boss is not, and never will be, your friend.