Is the best thing a new high school grad can do to become more tech literate really brush up on their "Blackboard skills"?
A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
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Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#92Another twenty-year professor here. I would just like to point out that this article is articulating -- with absolutely accuracy and lucidity -- every college administrator's worst nightmare. They've all been discussing the possibility (that parents and students will make this very decision) for weeks.
It might be the right decision to make, but it would be absolutely catastrophic for most schools.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#93I'm looking at college this fall and seriously wondering about this. I'll have to spend a lot of money if I go to an "elite" school, and the point of doing that is to make connections with my peers and with professors. I don't see the point of paying that kind of money for that sort of experience. That aside, not starting college may not be a good idea, either. Does anyone with more experience have advice on this? I…
Once you are five years out of college, your resume lists work experience and the year you graduated from college. Most folks won't care whether you were the hotshot that got early admission, or the kid that took an extra year to finish university.
The framework I would use here is: is this a reversible or irreversible decision? Some factors I would consider:
- Do you think you will enjoy it? For me, it was four years of responsibility (buying groceries, doing my own laundry, learning to cook) but also four years of freedom (choosing my own bedtime, dating without being judged by parents).
- Can you defer an offer / reapply next year? (Ask the admissions department; most of the time the answer is yes, but there are details.)
- Do you have peers from high school that are going this year? (No one I knew was still hanging out with their high school friends after Thanksgiving, but I found it helped with the loneliness of the first week of living in dorms.)
- Do you have a place to live if you don't go to college? (Does your job cover rent for your own place? Alternatively, are you on good enough terms with your parents to stay in your bedroom / in their basement?)
- Would inertia lead you to never go to college? You may find it harder to go to college once you have a comfortable adult quality of life. If this happens to you, would you regret it?
- Will you have opportunities to socialize in college? (Dorms, student clubs, student newspapers, etc.)
- Do you think the job market will have recovered by the time you graduate? (I started my Bachelor's in 2009. On the other hand, folks are saying that the current recession is worse than the '08 crisis.) Where is the breakeven point for lifetime earnings between current job versus post-college job with college debt?
- What are plausible bad-case outcomes for each path, and how can you mitigate the downsides? Time-box this to maybe an hour of research: you want to be emotionally prepared for this possibility but not let it become all-consuming anxiety. (Consider: What does the world look like if we don't find a vaccine?)
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#94As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…
Pro tip: if you live in California, there's something called IGETC, which is a set of GE classes you can take at a community college. Look up the equivalent in your state.
Once you do that, you don't have to take GE classes at most UCs and CSUs.
Transfer students typically take IGETC classes at community college, which is what allows them to graduate in 2 years once they transfer.
I realized I could take these classes while in high school and so I finished all my IGETC classes while in high school. It did a middle college program my senior year, but even if I didn't I probably could still finished IGETC, by taking community college classes online and using AP scores.
This allowed me to graduate in 2.5 years from UC Berkeley with a CS degree. I didn't have to take any GE classes at all in college (though of course I could've if I wanted to). I then paid off my student debt after a couple months of starting my first job.
This is the best of both worlds: don't spend two years at a CC (which was never too fun for me) and also graduate early from whatever college you go to.
This trick worked for me because I knew from the start I wanted to go to Cal or another UC. If my goal was to go to a private or Ivy League school, this wouldn't have worked.
I do kind of regret not applying to Stanford or any Ivy League schools, but I think going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to go to a more prestigious school, and having to stay there longer, just isn't worth it. I would've gone to Cal even if I got into these schools for this reason.
Especially as someone who wants to start a startup, this much debt will make you a lot less willing and able to take risks.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#95As a millennial college graduate, my number one piece of advice to college bound high schoolers is do the first two years at community college. The debt is not worth the experience. Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out, community college is a great place to do that. I didn't even know this was an option until after college and I feel failed by my high school college advisors. Unless you are very c…
Anecdotally, I felt like 4 years at a university was not enough time to really grasp the college experience.
Also maybe a lot of American students aren’t aware of this, but there are many “needs based” government scholarships out there that can make your state university effectively free to attend. I attended a state university from 08-12 and didn’t pay a dime, thanks to the Pell Grant and some needs-based scholarships from my state (Arizona Assurance).
It seems like the rough spot with regards to paying for college is being too rich to qualify for the needs-based scholarships and too poor to have your parents be able to afford everything. For that, I sympathize and would probably recommend the community college approach.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…
> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out".…
>What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable.
Depends on the quality of the school. If it's a top school then transferring can be difficult, you lose on networking opportunities (with students and professors), potential internships/summer research and arguably get a weaker education (although, true, it matters less the first couple years). I've taken courses at a community college and at a top school, the later was much more rigorous and fast moving.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree. Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. There is vastly less academic support available. The people around you will be vastly less ambitious. This will rub off on you. Yes 4 year university is now overpriced in America. But if you can, go to a 4 year university. Yes maybe go to an in-state university instead of out of state if that is cheaper, or go where you get the best financial a…
>Graduation rates are drastically lower from community colleges. how is that a useful metric for anything, really? Look how many extra programs pull people into community colleges, and look at the difference in accessibility between community colleges and universities. A stay-at-home mother isn't going to be eyeballing Stanford as a viable way to get her nursing degree with night classes. In the same instance, a stay…
>They both result in degrees, but they serve (mostly) different communities of people.
Right - and if you're a recent high school grad with the grades to go to a good state school (not just Berkeley or whatever) and a desire to be around your peers while fully dedicating yourself to your education, you're not really in the target audience for community college.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
The open source community serves as an ad hoc application of the apprenticeship / guild concept. I have some friends who don't have college degrees but have been hired due to their demonstrable and attested technical skill in serious FOSS projects
Wouldn't working on FOSS projects be closer to an internship rather than apprenticeship? Are they really being mentored and taught while working on the FOSS projects?
Depends on the project but a lot of times yes, especially if there's a large community
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
A primary reason to attend the most exclusive college you can is the academic caliber of your fellow students.
You mean high socioeconomic caliber, don't you? High academic caliber peers are easily available online.
Given that probably the biggest by far factor for success in most anything is connections and networking the later is a lot less useful than the former.
Re: A twenty-year professor on starting college this fall: Don’t
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think you read the article. It's telling people to defer a year because of coronavirus, not the usual college is not worth it schpeel. That being said, I disagree with your advice in two cases: 1) Most top schools offer free tuition if your family income is below a generous threshold (like $150k). If you can get into Stanford and meet this criteria, it's cheaper than your local community college. 2) If you ar…
> 2) If you are studying a technical field, even if you are average, a degree has greater ROI than just about anything else. You can pay off your debt in the first few years out of school and continue earning dividends for the rest of your life. What's the downside to going to a community college? Where I grew up the credits were transferable. They did say, "Most people spend the first two years figuring stuff out".…
I took some community college classes in high school through a program we had with them. The environment and students were very underwhelming. Your mileage may vary.
I got to take relevant classes (CS) in my very first quarter of college. The first two years it was a 50/50 split. The biggest benefit was being among smart, interesting people. College was way better than any previous educational experience, by far.
That being said I didn't experience waiting for core classes. The class sizes were typically very large though. Taking these on the side at a community college while attending a 4 year college sounds like a good idea. I'm just opposed to putting everything on hold for 2 years to do basic classes. I don't think a community college is the place to explore interests.