Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

sixthtone.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 115 posts

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#91

Post by GordonS »

robocat wrote: post #64
ngokevin wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hatred of China in Western media is amplified to the max. Sometimes I think we're the ones being washed.

> The hatred of China in Western media That’s a very broad brush. I can see why you might say that about US media, but can you justify saying that about “Western” media?

Brit here, and we are being spoonfed plenty of anti-Chinese FUD by the mass media too, although certainly not to the same extent as in the US. Corona virus hasn't helped, with plenty idiots blaming China and even calling for revenge. As usual, it's anything to detract from problems closer to home.

I work with colleagues in multiple European countries, and have had this conversation - similar anti-Chinese sentiment appears to be being spread in Spain, Norway, Sweden, France and others.

Whenever the US picks a boogeyman de jour, Europe is often not too far behind, but always to a lesser extent.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#92

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

knolax wrote: post #79
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've now progressed to the point where even objectively true information that isn't prefaced with "I HATE THE CCP" is considered propaganda No, you just made that up.

That's what GP's position is. He agrees that the content of the article is correct (or can not prove otherwise), but considers it propaganda simply because it is not as critical of the Chinese government as he would prefer. Notice how no comments here have been able to point out any objective falsehoods with the article's content when asked to do so.

My experience of arguing with pro CCP people is that they will often deny, confuse the issue, avoid the question, or try to lead you offtrack. When backed into a corner they'll dump some vague denial then refuse to answer.

Why should I waste time on those who won't debate in good faith?

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#93

Post by knolax »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #92
knolax wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what GP's position is. He agrees that the content of the article is correct (or can not prove otherwise), but considers it propaganda simply because it is not as critical of the Chinese government as he would prefer. Notice how no comments here have been able to point out any objective falsehoods with the article's content when asked to do so.

My experience of arguing with pro CCP people is that they will often deny, confuse the issue, avoid the question, or try to lead you offtrack. When backed into a corner they'll dump some vague denial then refuse to answer. Why should I waste time on those who won't debate in good faith?

I should be asking you that question. Your own conduct so far would qualify as "confusing the issue" and your screed against these "pro CCP" is decidedly "off-track".

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#94

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

jonnypotty wrote: post #75
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #28

The title would be more useful if it made it clear that this is a doctor's POV, not a patient's. (Not least because a patient spending 7 weeks in an ICU would likely be sedated for most of it.)

Yeah, heaven forbid you have to read an article to find out what it says. Doesn't matter though, HN has already dismissed this article as state fabrication, cos "China" so you don't need to read it anyway.

I read it, but I almost didn't, because I've already read half a dozen "OMG I survived corona" stories from patients. I was (positively) surprised that it was actually the perspective of an ICU doc in Wuhan.

Also, "HN" (who?) hasn't asserted anything like what you're saying. If that piece is propaganda, it's pretty well done.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#95

Post by wangii »

peteretep wrote: post #61
wangii wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK. so is there any article is not to written to `influence an audience and further an agenda`. Everybody's playing the game But nobody's rules are the same Nobody's on nobody's side

You've omitted the word "primarily" in your quote, and it was an important one. But let's take a British tabloid like the Daily Mail. The Daily Mail has a distinct agenda, but the _primary_ purpose of content in the Daily Mail is to sell copies of the Daily Mail. The Economist has an unrelenting neo-liberal agenda, but again the primary purpose of content in The Economist is to sell copies of The Economist. These pub…

do you mean all the entities you listed above publish propaganda according to your definition, e.g. to sell copies, to explicitly push an agenda, although someone prefer to give them other names? do you want to revise your definition of propaganda?

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#96

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

knolax wrote: post #93
throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience of arguing with pro CCP people is that they will often deny, confuse the issue, avoid the question, or try to lead you offtrack. When backed into a corner they'll dump some vague denial then refuse to answer. Why should I waste time on those who won't debate in good faith?

I should be asking you that question. Your own conduct so far would qualify as "confusing the issue" and your screed against these "pro CCP" is decidedly "off-track".

> Your own conduct so far would qualify as "confusing the issue"

Nope, it was very precisely stated about you making stuff up. Nothing confusing there.

> and your screed against these "pro CPP" is decidedly "off-track"

In what way? Contrariwise, it was entirely on-track.

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#97

Post by knolax »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #96
knolax wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should be asking you that question. Your own conduct so far would qualify as "confusing the issue" and your screed against these "pro CCP" is decidedly "off-track".

> Your own conduct so far would qualify as "confusing the issue" Nope, it was very precisely stated about you making stuff up. Nothing confusing there. > and your screed against these "pro CPP" is decidedly "off-track" In what way? Contrariwise, it was entirely on-track.

My comment was made in reply to GP's and was a description and criticism of what he said. You seemed to have either genuinely or deliberately missed that point. When I clarified this you did not address the content of any of my arguments and instead went on a rant about how "pro CCP" people argue, which is off track because neither the article or I are "pro CCP".

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#98

Post by [deleted] »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #80
bhanhfo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"where even objectively true information"... do you have an example of this? What kind of recent news do you have in mind? So far, all the Covid19 stats out of China proofed to be fake. But I am happy to stand corrected. What numbers proofed to be correct in hindsight?

> So far, all the Covid19 stats out of China proofed to be fake. Citation needed. Which numbers have been proved to be incorrect ? So far, all I've seen is everyone saying the equivalent of "it's China so they must be lying".

[deleted]

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#99

Post by bhanhfo »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #80
bhanhfo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"where even objectively true information"... do you have an example of this? What kind of recent news do you have in mind? So far, all the Covid19 stats out of China proofed to be fake. But I am happy to stand corrected. What numbers proofed to be correct in hindsight?

> So far, all the Covid19 stats out of China proofed to be fake. Citation needed. Which numbers have been proved to be incorrect ? So far, all I've seen is everyone saying the equivalent of "it's China so they must be lying".

You know very well that it is impossible to get accurate numbers at this point. Even the graveyards in Wuhan are currently locked and guarded.

So what kind of source do you expect me to link to?

Re: I Spent Seven Weeks in a Wuhan ICU

#100

Post by ChefboyOG »

krageon wrote: post #86
hawkice wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think political bias at FOX can diminish their reporting substantially. But government propaganda truly is a different thing. It's as if you are comparing a natural disaster to a genocide - yes, the issue with both is that people die, and humans dying is with us no matter what we do. But even a serial killer acting as maliciously as possible isn't the same as a government dedicated to killing. There exists a meanin…

What I was implying is that the aggregate effect of corporate spin and government pressure is not materially different (in theory or in practice) from what might be happening in China. They're both very very bad and we should talk about how to fix that, what we shouldn't be doing is pointing fingers and pretending one is bad (while neglecting to mention the other).

I am no defender of Western media, but this is a textbook false equivalency. There is massive material and theoretical difference between corporate spin and government propaganda. Corporate dishonesty is possible in the US precisely because we protect the press's freedom. China, on the other hand, jails jails more journalists than any other nation. Sure, they're both "bad," but fundamentally different.
Post reply on HN