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Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

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Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#91

Post by sgc »

tempestn wrote: post #54
sgc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans have never had a month off work in their lives. It will probably help mental health for for them at least.

I don't agree with the initial premise that suppression measures would potentially cost anywhere near as many lives as they would save. That said, I don't think it's reasonable to compare being off work due to a pandemic lockdown or similar circumstances to a month-long vacation. This will cause significant hardship and stress for many people. It's just that without measures to control the virus, you would still have…

I don't think it's a vacation. But I do think it will have some potentially beneficial side effects, as well as the obvious negative ones.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#92

Post by tpush »

AlexCoventry wrote: post #23
antidaily wrote: post #17

Less fat people.

FWIW, a quick Google tells me that the obesity rate in Germany is higher than it is in the US. I didn't down-vote you, though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Germany I suppose it's possible that the WHO and the CDC use different BMI thresholds, though.

> FWIW, a quick Google tells me that the obesity rate in Germany is higher than it is in the US.

Where are you getting that from? A quick Google tells me exactly the opposite [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_r...

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#93

Post by Barrin92 »

Semaphor wrote: post #40
Barrin92 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if you look at the level of care in Germany that you get even in remote towns (corona virus aside), there is a lot to be said for the decentralised model. A lot of states, not just the US have highly unequal public infrastructure. France being one of the bigger examples, but the UK too. There's a very basic Hayekian argument about the problems of concentrating so much knowledge and capacity in the capital alo…

> I think if you look at the level of care in Germany that you get even in remote towns (corona virus aside), there is a lot to be said for the decentralised model. Is it better? I really don’t know, all I heard about this are the complaints about rural areas being underserved by doctors, especially GPs

They're sometimes maybe not quite up to the standards you'd find in a urban university clinic, but compared to other places I've been it's quite astonishing how high quality the care is even in small remote hospitals. The demographics are increasingly affecting the number of physicians though, that much is true.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#94

Post by AlexCoventry »

tpush wrote: post #92
AlexCoventry wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, a quick Google tells me that the obesity rate in Germany is higher than it is in the US. I didn't down-vote you, though. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Germany I suppose it's possible that the WHO and the CDC use different BMI thresholds, though.

> FWIW, a quick Google tells me that the obesity rate in Germany is higher than it is in the US. Where are you getting that from? A quick Google tells me exactly the opposite [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_r...

From the obesity rates in the links I gave in my comment. Your list is probably more appropriate, though.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#95

Post by s9w »

sgc wrote: post #89
s9w wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't follow along with that. We're in peace times.. banning people from going out of their home is something I would not have believed possible until russian tanks are at the gates of Berlin again, or the day of reckoning is coming after all. The mortality is not increased [1], the number of acute respiratory illnesses is not increased [2]. German hospitals are not overwhelmed, indeed we gave away hundreds of resp…

I would not be surprised if fatalities overall remain flat due to lowered activity. That doesn't mean they would not explode without them. Germany is an outlier, not the norm as basically all statistics we have at this point indicate. I agree that Germany needs a different course of action than other countries, but I don't think that is widely applicable. Milan was not overwhelmed by influenza, that is just an Italia…

> I would not be surprised if fatalities overall remain flat

What would be enough evidence in a month or two that you would agree that this was fantastically overblown? I fear that even after this is over, the numbers will be be same same but still misrepresented by everyone to say that it was all necessary.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#96

Post by sgc »

s9w wrote: post #95
sgc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be surprised if fatalities overall remain flat due to lowered activity. That doesn't mean they would not explode without them. Germany is an outlier, not the norm as basically all statistics we have at this point indicate. I agree that Germany needs a different course of action than other countries, but I don't think that is widely applicable. Milan was not overwhelmed by influenza, that is just an Italia…

> I would not be surprised if fatalities overall remain flat What would be enough evidence in a month or two that you would agree that this was fantastically overblown? I fear that even after this is over, the numbers will be be same same but still misrepresented by everyone to say that it was all necessary.

I doubt that would be possible in that time frame. But I would need to see evidence of basic herd immunity or a massive chunk of herd immunity (50% population including representative percentage of the elderly) with low death rates, including in areas where medical systems were overwhelmed. Otherwise an effective preventative quarantine will always on face value look like an exaggeration, since the goal is to avoid something before it happens. But looking at New York and Milan, etc, I think that option is fast becoming a fantasy if it is not one already.

Solidarity and group effort are important parts of what it means to be human.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#97

Post by s9w »

sgc wrote: post #96
s9w wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would not be surprised if fatalities overall remain flat What would be enough evidence in a month or two that you would agree that this was fantastically overblown? I fear that even after this is over, the numbers will be be same same but still misrepresented by everyone to say that it was all necessary.

I doubt that would be possible in that time frame. But I would need to see evidence of basic herd immunity or a massive chunk of herd immunity (50% population including representative percentage of the elderly) with low death rates, including in areas where medical systems were overwhelmed. Otherwise an effective preventative quarantine will always on face value look like an exaggeration, since the goal is to avoid s…

That is a very high bar to prove and therefore a very low bar to implement these harsh measures. The measures themselves are inhuman too.

I think we both weight our rights, the medical risk and economic danger differently but I can see your reasoning.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#98

Post by sgc »

s9w wrote: post #97
sgc wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that would be possible in that time frame. But I would need to see evidence of basic herd immunity or a massive chunk of herd immunity (50% population including representative percentage of the elderly) with low death rates, including in areas where medical systems were overwhelmed. Otherwise an effective preventative quarantine will always on face value look like an exaggeration, since the goal is to avoid s…

That is a very high bar to prove and therefore a very low bar to implement these harsh measures. The measures themselves are inhuman too. I think we both weight our rights, the medical risk and economic danger differently but I can see your reasoning.

Maybe we should be infecting under 40s with a very low dose of the virus so they have an ever higher probability of getting just a little sick, and jump start the herd immunity process. It would be a form of vaccine-lite and allow a lot of people to get back to a normal life sooner rather than later.

Re: Germany's Coronavirus Death Rate Is Lower Than in Other Countries

#100

Post by tatersolid »

Zenst wrote: post #47
wavesounds wrote: post #11

If theres a silver lining to this pandemic hopefully it will make people realize the importance of having competent leaders and institutions.

Hypothetical question - If you had to pick a leader from anybody in the World, from the entire history of humanity to lead in such a situation - who would you pick and why?

Eisenhower. He steered us through the greatest catastrophe the world has ever seen, and was wary of his own power.
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