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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#91

Post by klodolph »

gdubs wrote: post #45
ryanmccullagh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, does the state and federal goverment have the power to control the movement of people? Does the state have the power to control my movement from my own home to the end of the street for my daily walk?

Wouldn't this fall under 'martial law'? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_in_the_United_Stat... "The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." I guess the legal argument comes down to a lack of a comma between 'invasion' and 'the public safety'. Or whether a virus constitutes 'invasion'.

Habeas corpus isn’t the issue here. It’s 1st / 5th / 14th amendment issues:

- 1st: Right to peacefully assemble

- 14th “nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”

5th has similar text to 14th.

To be clear: I’m not arguing that the various govts. can’t impose quarantines or isolation orders, I’m just outlining which parts of the constitution are relevant to the legal questions.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#92

Post by jniedrauer »

stronglikedan wrote: post #47
jakear wrote: post #32

So that’s CA and NY both with shelter in place. Strange that WA hasn’t implemented it yet.

This seems to be a reaction to people not doing it on their own sufficiently enough, like what happened in Italy. Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously, so they don't require an official mandate. That decision can't be a light one, and I don't envy those that have to make it.

> Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously

I doubt that. I'm in a mid sized city in WA and I've seen a notable increase in traffic in the last week. People are leaving their homes more now. Most of the offices are empty so I'm not entirely sure where they're going, but they're going somewhere.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#93

Post by wbl »

syshum wrote: post #79
vehementi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you lock down too early, you extend the infection to a length of time that makes the lockdown impossible. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

This virus will be with everyone for 18+ months, the point of the lockdown is allow the Health system to catch up If you lock down early you irreparably harm the local economy and simply delay a spike instead of "flattening the curve" unless you are willing to except a year long lock down, massive economic depression and the colapse of the US Dollar

We could contact trace and quarantine like SK is now.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#94

Post by bprater »

cameldrv wrote: post #76
vehementi wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A month? Wouldn't it be more like 1-2 weeks?

The virus progresses from infection to death in more like 3 weeks, depending on medical care. Any change in infections wouldn't be seen for about that time.

This is accurate. Also, most folks that do go to the Hospital with Covid-19 are staying much longer than people who have pneumonia. That means hospital beds that can't be recycled as quickly to get to the next wave of individuals.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#95

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the long run.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#96

Post by papa_bear »

40four wrote: post #82
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is huge, and the virus is hitting different areas with different intensities. Its spread is heavily impacted by population density and rates of random social encounters. A Nationwide lockdown might make sense if the goal was to snuff the infection out, but as of now the goal is to lower the peak of the curve. If you lock down too early, you extend the infection to a length of time that makes the lockdown impossib…

I agree... it doesn't make sense to just throw a blanket lock down over the whole county indiscriminately. Same goes for state governors to throw these blanket shutdowns of bars a restaurants over the whole state at once. I don't understand why we can't take a more localize approach to this. Maybe only implement the lock downs in the worst areas, or areas entering acceleration phase. Can't we be smarter about this? W…

Without out adequate testing, we can't know where to localize the lockdowns to.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#98

Post by senordevnyc »

jniedrauer wrote: post #92
stronglikedan wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a reaction to people not doing it on their own sufficiently enough, like what happened in Italy. Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously, so they don't require an official mandate. That decision can't be a light one, and I don't envy those that have to make it.

> Perhaps Washingtonians are taking the recommendations more seriously I doubt that. I'm in a mid sized city in WA and I've seen a notable increase in traffic in the last week. People are leaving their homes more now. Most of the offices are empty so I'm not entirely sure where they're going, but they're going somewhere.

Maybe outdoors? Maybe fleeing cities, or going to be with family in other parts of the country since it's clear this is going to last for months?

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#99

Post by 40four »

syshum wrote: post #79
vehementi wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you lock down too early, you extend the infection to a length of time that makes the lockdown impossible. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that?

This virus will be with everyone for 18+ months, the point of the lockdown is allow the Health system to catch up If you lock down early you irreparably harm the local economy and simply delay a spike instead of "flattening the curve" unless you are willing to except a year long lock down, massive economic depression and the colapse of the US Dollar

This is happening in my area right now. The number of cases is little to none, but the governor threw a blanket lock down on bars and restaurants, etc, over the whole state. It was too early for my area for sure. So in the meantime, businesses and people's livelihoods are already being destroyed.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#100

Post by quartzite »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #95

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…

Exactly. All this talk of "flattening the curve" is counterproductive if the curve remains flattened right at capacity for an extended period of time, which is what these measures will cause, rather than spiking for a short period.
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