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Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

businessinsider.com

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Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#91

Post by ascar »

cmcaine wrote: post #54
qubex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes — because such behaviour results in losses for the company and, if sufficiently extreme (i.e., pushing them to bankruptcy) is self-correcting (they leave the market and vacate the slots).

You can just fine the companies rather than incentivising them to run empty planes. Better yet, institute a proper carbon tax and either a carefully thought-out market for slots and/or fines.

The whole point of the rule is that it's more expensive to not run the flights than to run them with few passengers. So the fine would need to be higher than the cost of operating the flight resulting in the exact same outcome.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#92

Post by api »

mathieuh wrote: post #88
api wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Transportation is critical yet often unprofitable, which is why it's usually heavily regulated and subsidized.

Further, it acts as a multiplier. Which is why I believe rail travel should be nationalised—very few people take a train for the sake of being on a train, people take trains to work or to spend money somewhere else. It makes no economic sense to insert competition into a natural monopoly whose main purpose is to multiply people’s productivity. Everyone loses out.

The only benefit and rationale for competition there is to prevent bureaucratic sclerosis. Its easy for any monopoly to become top heavy with corrupt or incompetent chair warmers who just extract from it and barely do their job.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#93

Post by everyone »

gruez wrote: post #24
everyone wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What 'benefit to society' do full planes achieve?

Transportation of passengers ?

But what % of passengers purpose for travel has any utility? Close to zero I would imagine.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#94

Post by redwall_hp »

bob33212 wrote: post #33
everyone wrote: post #18

Covid 19 is a good opportunity for extremely sensible change. Lets all stop needlessly flying, lets all work from home (if your just doing an office job anyway), lets use local products and not stuff from half way across the world.

A decent percentage of people put food on the table and a roof over their head by doing a job we could classify as needless

In other words: a society predicated on working is obsolete and needs to be replaced.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#95

Post by gruez »

DeedsMoraine wrote: post #86
gruez wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mandating flights seems like a bad solution to carriers canceling flights unilaterally. Why not just force them to provide comparable alternate arrangements and/or pay the passengers financial compensation?

It's not about the passengers, it's about parking space for the planes. You not taking off means someone else can't land.

If that's really the issue, why are they constantly making ghost flights? Surely there are places to park planes in bulk (eg. same place where they're parking all the 737 MAX)

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#97

Post by gpvos »

jsjddbbwj wrote: post #17
gpvos wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuel is being burned, creating more CO2, without any benefit to society.

So if I have a corporation I have to benefit society with it? Else what, the government must expropriate my corporation from me?

Maybe not your corporation per se. But the fact that corporations, which are legal fictions, can be created is because many societies have deemed them to be, on balance, beneficial. Once the balance goes the other way, things should, and are likely to, change.

Also, you are exhibiting all the signs of a troll. Please reconsider the way you are presenting your opinions.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#98

Post by gpvos »

chrisseaton wrote: post #36
qubex wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes — because such behaviour results in losses for the company and, if sufficiently extreme (i.e., pushing them to bankruptcy) is self-correcting (they leave the market and vacate the slots).

Why not create a competitive market for slots, rather than incentivising people to literally burn fuel?

There is such a market. It's just that in some cases, it can be economical for an airline to hang on to an unused slot at cost in the short term if it expects the slot to be profitable in the longer term.

Re: Airlines flying empty planes to keep flight slots during coronavirus outbreak

#100

Post by dodobirdlord »

gruez wrote: post #95
DeedsMoraine wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the passengers, it's about parking space for the planes. You not taking off means someone else can't land.

If that's really the issue, why are they constantly making ghost flights? Surely there are places to park planes in bulk (eg. same place where they're parking all the 737 MAX)

Parking planes in bulk isn't the issue here. Planes are expensive and nobody wants to mothball them, they want them at airports.
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