Earlier quoted context omitted.
People are elected to make decisions for us. We hold them responsible at the next election. That is the currently what democracy is.
How’s that working for ya? Democracies where the people only have a voice every few years are regularly seen doing things against the will of the people, because the politicians know they can get away with it, because it’ll be forgotten by the time the next election comes around.
Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
91–100 of 111 posts
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
The rational, and actually communicated suchly, was that they had to draw a line somewhere. And it's not that smaller events automatically go forward, but that the cantons, where those events happen, together with the organizers need to perform a risk assessment and decide if the event can go forward. > More effective might be barring all international travelers as extreme as that would be. No it wouldn't for a varie…
I’m pretty sure the agreement allows for temporary border controls in the event of serious emergencies. For people en-route, yes quarantine upon arrival would be the right thing to do, in the least self quarantine at home with proper precautions.
But I don't think that the situation calls for a full throttled shut everything down, oj! wie is mir, panic.
Since I travelled to Asia 3 1/2 weeks ago I was quite concerned and very abreast with valid information. So I mostly referred to the one reasonable source[1].
In no instance have they suggested any bans on travel or trade. And frankly, I put more stock into the opinion of the WHO than, say, Mike Pence'.
In addition I'm travelling from a country were the risk of infection is lower than if I travelled from neighboring Italy.
That's not to say that I'm blasé about the issue. If I would feel any slight symtoms I'd immediately contact my doc, relay my travel history and do whatever is required. Legally and morally.
Full throttle panic in the line of The end is nigh, shut down all borders! is, if anything, extremely counter productive.
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are probably being downvoted because the Swiss system of direct democracy: -has existed for much longer than Swiss banking being particularly significant -existed already when Switzerland was one of the poorest countries in Europe Also, banking is only significant in a small part of Switzerland.
I fail to see any evidence for how 'direct democracy' is the primary, or even relevant social artifact which drove the special directive highlighted in the article (i.e. cancellation of public events), or even any evidence that such 'direct democracy' provides superior social organization. It's really odd that someone would even bring that up. Switzerland was the last country in the modern world to allow women to vot…
That comment chain went as follows (I am quoting only part of the comments):
1) "Switzerland, most democratic country in the world, reminding people that it isn't just the authoritarians who know how to keep organised."
2) "Well, as a Swiss I can only state for the record that the government is not the enemy. Essentially: The government is us. "
3) "It requires a multi-generational cultural conditioning to develop the civic mind that the Swiss have nurtured. It is also not clear how scalable it is ultimately."
4) your comment which was quoted the line above and discussed the role of Swiss wealth in being able to respond effective to a pandemic.
To me, your comment would have made more sense in reply to the first comment. The "It" from comment 3 that you responded to is the Swiss attitude towards the power of their government(s) and the placement of your comment might therefore lead people to think you meant that their wealth lead to that attitude rather than what you intended which was that their wealth would aid their ability to respond to an outbreak of disease.
On another note. While I do not think Swiss-style direct democracy gives a particular advantage in fighting pandemics (and has led to some not-great outcomes such as women in one canton not being able to vote until 1991), I do think that systems of government in which citizens have a high degree of trust are at an advantage. The Swiss do have a high regard for their system and they will do what they are told without resenting they system because they feel invested in it.
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes in Switzerland and all the new cases originated in different place of Italy. So it seems that in Switzerland when people are back from Italy and having symptoms, they look for help and are tested. But as it is very unlikely that all these people were in contact with the 650 people detected in Italy (most of them were back from Milan, Verona, and not from the lockdown cities, my fear is that Italy is facing a diff…
Not sure about Italy, but Imperial college in London did estimates in January for how many in Wuhan were infected based on internationally infected people and the catchment area of Wuhan airport. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/194815/coronavirus-outbreak-...
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Swiss resident (but not Swiss citizen) here. I believe Switzerland is a very unique case in that the Swiss have a culture of local (ie. Canton and Commune) level decision making via direct democracy. You grow up wielding a certain power, and you know your decisions matter and will affect your everyday life. This ingrains a close relationship between the citizens and their representatives. What I'm trying to say is th…
"It requires a multi-generational cultural conditioning to develop the civic mind that the Swiss have nurtured. It is also not clear how scalable it is ultimately." It also requires ancient banking roots that enable it to sit on the largest 'pot of gold' in the world (1/3 of the entire world's foreign investment) and put the management surpluses into its treasury. And to add, much of that 'gold' was, and is, owned by…
Swiss banks have indeed sat on funds where they could have been proactive in looking for heirs. They have traded and trade with companies and regimes that should be shunned. Switzerland is a tax haven and profits by taxing capital gains that could have been taxed where the work was done. Still there are many other factors that contribute to wealth. One thing is steady, low-corruption government and an investment mindset in public infrastructure. This coupled with a culture that fosters strong work ethics leads to accumulation of wealth. Another huge factor is no wars for centuries which is part luck, part ugly realpolitik.
So yes the Swiss system could not be implemented as-is by other countries. Yet looking at real-world implementations of certain policies can help illuminate how to get a wealthy population. And it doesn't have to be the tax thievery.
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#96Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
They also stated that infections appear to require less than 2 meter distance between people for at least 15 minutes.
Having tried to make friends living here for 12 years, it seems to me that the whole country is going to be just fine, in that case. (This was a joke)
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#98It’s only a matter of time before this starts happening all over Europe. > England's chief medical officer, Prof Chris Whitty, said transmission of the virus between people in the UK was "just a matter of time". He said if the outbreak intensifies, it may be necessary to close schools and stop mass gatherings of people for "quite a long period of time, probably more than two months".
Of course the most common mass gatherings, people going to places to do non-essential work, will continue apace.
Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#99Re: Switzerland Federal Council bans large-scale events
#100Well, great. If they had done this a couple weeks earlier, I could have avoid the horrible carnival that annoys me every year.
Oh, are you one of those people who’ve _chosen_ to live in a city that’s known to have a big festival every year, and is for some reason still angry said festival happens? You could just move, you know? Or at least plan vacation when the carnival happens so it doesn’t have to bother you.
1000s of people need to get to and from the train-station, to go to their jobs and the city makes almost no extra arrangements.