Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 142 posts

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#91

Post by FooHentai »

iso947 wrote: post #63
lispm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maintain the existing nuclear plants In Japan and wait for the next major earthquakes? > Hardening existing plants against possible future catastrophe is probably far cheaper Probably not. That's the case in Japan where several reactors will never be restarted again.

Earthquake hasn’t caused any problems in nuclear plants in Japan A tsunami that killed over 10,000 people caused some minor problems. That’s like saying you got a puncture in a multi car pileup.

>Earthquake hasn’t caused any problems in nuclear plants in Japan

Earthquake caused the Tsunami.

>A tsunami that killed over 10,000 people caused some minor problems. That’s like saying you got a puncture in a multi car pileup.

"The disaster was the most severe nuclear accident since the 26 April 1986 Chernobyl disaster and the only other disaster to be given the Level 7 event classification of the International Nuclear Event Scale."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_Daiichi_nuclear_disa...

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#92

Post by xxgreg »

shawndrost wrote: post #39
lispm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same thing happened in Germany. Germany turned to coal? It didn't happen. Germany actually turned to renewables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany#...

It did happen. Germany has shut down most of its nuclear power generation and is phasing the rest out by 2022. So far, 'researchers [..] found that nuclear power was mostly replaced with power from coal plants, which led to [..] about a 5 percent increase in emissions.' https://www.wired.com/story/germany-rejected-nuclear-poweran...

Phrase it how you will, but this chart shows it clearly.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/g...

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#93

Post by lispm »

iso947 wrote: post #63
lispm wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maintain the existing nuclear plants In Japan and wait for the next major earthquakes? > Hardening existing plants against possible future catastrophe is probably far cheaper Probably not. That's the case in Japan where several reactors will never be restarted again.

Earthquake hasn’t caused any problems in nuclear plants in Japan A tsunami that killed over 10,000 people caused some minor problems. That’s like saying you got a puncture in a multi car pileup.

In 2010 Japan had 54 nuclear reactors.

In June 2011 Japan had 0 working nuclear reactors!

In early 2019 Japan had 42 reactors (12 were closed) and of those 9 were working.

A single earthquake caused the shutdown all those reactors for many years.

And you tell us "Earthquake hasn’t caused any problems in nuclear plants in Japan". In reality the single earthquake caused massive economic damage and a huge loss of electricity production capacity.

I would expect (just my guess), that several of the 33 shutdown reactors will also never be restarted - adding to the economic damage.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#94

Post by crispinb »

jdshaffer wrote: post #90
dangus wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it the “environmentalists” who won here? That’s just a label, and you’re using it to group an unknown mass of people together, assume they have identical views, and criticize them. Let me guess - everything that’s gone wrong in the world is also the fault of “the liberals?” In reality, Japan had an unfortunate nuclear catastrophe and it scared people, rightfully. The public put pressure on the government to ensur…

And that's not to forget the large quantities of contaminated water that are rapidly increasing at the Fukushima site. Now they want to release them into the ocean... Meltdown is scary, but so are the thoughts of dumping radioactive water into the oceans (and we eat a lot of seafood here in Japan!). Scary.

Well it's scary in the abstract. Which is why to make a rational assessment you need details (of relevant half-life, volumes, ocean dispersal directions & rates, etc). Hard for us laypersons to assess, so it's easier to be scared (if you're anti-nuclear inclined) or complacent (if you're reflexively pro tech).

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#95

Post by keanzu »

As of [Dec 9, 2019], there are nine reactors officially in operation.

Another six reactors have made improvements to meet the new, post-3/11 quake safety standards and have received NRA approval to restart.

What about the future for nuclear power in Japan?

The government’s long-term energy policy for 2030 calls for nuclear power to make up around 20 to 22 percent of the nation’s energy mix, and it is pushing hard for the restart of as many idled reactors as possible.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/12/09/reference/japan...

Has there been a new development where the Japanese government "abandoned nuclear energy" sometime in the last two months?

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#96

Post by seabrookmx »

vernie wrote: post #13
adamnemecek wrote: post #9

Fukushima reactor design was terrible. Like legit bad. I wonder if open source nuclear power plants plans are the future.

Looking forward to the GitHub issue about the color of the plant's bike shed.

This.

"Open Source" in this context would be largely meaningless, because there's so few people that contribute at that level.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#98

Post by keanzu »

wmeddie wrote: post #88

One thing this article doesn't cover which was a big part of this decision was nuclear waste. Nobody wants nuclear waste sites in their prefectures. There was a plan to use breeder reactors, but that hasn't gone anywhere, and the waste is just piling up at the reactor sites with absolutely no place to dispose it. When the mayor of Osaka even hinted at making an underwater waste site the backlash was huge. I doubt any…

> this decision

What decision? This appears to be a Bloomberg opinion piece, I see not a single reference or statement from the Japanese government.

"Another six reactors have made improvements to meet the new, post-3/11 quake safety standards and have received NRA approval to restart."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/12/09/reference/japan...

As recently as December last year reactors had restart approval.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#99

Post by lispm »

FooHentai wrote: post #72
espadrine wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument causes some of the problems this argument tries to avoid. > I'm opposed to the construction of new nuclear plants The technology involved in nuclear plants has evolved tremendously, both in terms of efficiency and in terms of safety, but the technology of the new generation is fundamentally different. > The biggest drawbacks of nuclear power (expensive and slow plant construction) are off the table with…

I don't follow what you're saying about 'GEN IV' reactors. AFAIK, that's reactors of a type that won't be online until at least 2030: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_IV_reactor The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred. How is the reactor design relevant? Also regarding Superphénix, your telling of this seems a bit biased - The rocket attack occurred in 1982 and it…

> The primary failure at Fukushima was a sea wall too low for the tsunami that occurred

Loss of emergency electricity for the reactors. Needs for large amounts of electricity for cooling of reactors and spent fuel pools. No quick electricity from the outside for the reactors. Hydrogen explosion damaging the building. Cooling only possible with water from the outside. Structural damage due to water on the building. Spent fuel pools high in the building - hard to reach. Lots of spent fuel on the site, because a lack of storage sites. Radioactive water leaking to the environment. Possibility of severe damages on the building by further earthquakes...

There were many many problems with the site.

Re: Japan Turns to Coal After Closing Nuclear Power Plants

#100

Post by xxgreg »

adaisadais wrote: post #21

Knowledgeable nuclear folks: Is there a way of designing safe nuclear plants in safe places in the world and efficiently exporting that energy to other parts within that same region? Thank you for your answers. I know v little on the subject but am a big believer in the inherent power that nuclear generates and its’ cost effectiveness.

You can convert electricity, water and CO2 to fuels, such as hydrogen and natgas. These fuels can then be transported.

There are significant energy losses if all you want on the other end is electricity. But not so bad if you're burning it for heat.

In theory a nuclear reactor could produce both electricity and heat to produce synthetic fuels, making it more cost effective than renewables.

For electricity only it looks like renewables are significantly cheaper however.

Post reply on HN