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On Resigning from Google

alphabetworkers.org

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Re: On Resigning from Google

#91

Post by crdoconnor »

shadowgovt wrote: post #27
mberning wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is extremely self important. The fact that so many people with these proclivities have gravitated to Google can not be a good thing. I have to imagine Google HR is not too troubled by shedding noisy moralizers within their ranks.

Google spent decades selecting for these "moralizers" and is now reaping what it sowed; "don't be evil" was a cultural slogan that carries consequences if it attracts a particular kind of mindset. And in a few cases, yeah; HR is shitting bricks because it's losing people who built the underlying fabric of the system (which anyone who has built a large system will tell you increases risk to the entire software company…

>Google spent decades selecting for these "moralizers" and is now reaping what it sowed; "don't be evil" was a cultural slogan that carries consequences if it attracts a particular kind of mindset.

And apparently that mindset drove an enormous amount of profit and, at least in the beginning, gave the company some sort of social conscience.

It's amazing that you can be so against these things

Re: On Resigning from Google

#92

Post by privateSFacct »

aaomidi wrote: post #67
scardycat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure "it's a business" but does that give it a green card to act how it pleases? of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law. Do you not act as you please? Do you not eat a $40 meal while a homeless person is lying outside in the cold? DO you not send your kid to a private school at $100k/year while the kid down the street (down the highway) struggles for school supplies? > So please, s…

You're telling me to accept the status quo and be fine with it. That's telling me how to behave. The company is just an entity that needs to follow the set of guidelines set by people living in that society.

Please - quit your overpaid tech job and actually work to change the status quo. No one is saying you have to accept the status quo.

But your lectures while driving past the homeless in a $100K tesla on your way to swank vacations are tiresome - particularly as you build that money off the status quo you are so eager to say is terrible.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#93

Post by skynetv2 »

aaomidi wrote: post #67
scardycat wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure "it's a business" but does that give it a green card to act how it pleases? of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law. Do you not act as you please? Do you not eat a $40 meal while a homeless person is lying outside in the cold? DO you not send your kid to a private school at $100k/year while the kid down the street (down the highway) struggles for school supplies? > So please, s…

You're telling me to accept the status quo and be fine with it. That's telling me how to behave. The company is just an entity that needs to follow the set of guidelines set by people living in that society.

I think you made their point yourself

Go change the guidelines. No need to tell anyone anything at that point.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#94

Post by jodrellblank »

mberning wrote: post #16
bla3 wrote: post #2

> www.alphabetworkers.org/ > The trouble with deep belief > The reason it’s unlikely to work is that although you can persecute the prophets Sounds a bit full of themselves. They worked for a company, they no longer like the company, they quit. Great, move on. No need to make a big deal about it. It's just a job.

It is extremely self important. The fact that so many people with these proclivities have gravitated to Google can not be a good thing. I have to imagine Google HR is not too troubled by shedding noisy moralizers within their ranks.

How is it anymore “self important” than any other blogger or internet commenter talking about climate change or human rights?

Why are you calling “caring about people” a “proclivity” as if it was distasteful compared to the pure and high minded pursuit of profit at all costs?

Re: On Resigning from Google

#95

Post by baddox »

paxys wrote: post #83
baddox wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider what happens if everyone who has a moral complaint about their employer immediately quits rather than staying around and attempting to chase the complaint up the management hierarchy and/or educate and organize other employees to voice the complaint. I think utilizing one's power as a worker and aligning other workers to increase workers' power is far from hypocritical. It's a great way (perhaps the only rel…

> Consider what happens if everyone who has a moral complaint about their employer immediately quits This is in fact the quickest way to ensure that this behavior immediately stops

I don't think that's true, precisely because the employee with a complaint can potentially increase their leverage significantly by educating and organizing other employees around the cause.

Your analysis seems to assume that there's some fixed percentage of employees who think some action from their employer is bad, and if that percentage is high enough, then all those employees could quit, which would either somehow signal to the employer that their action was bad or would damage the company so much that they would need to change their actions.

I think that's wishful thinking, and of course the percentage of employees with a complaint is not fixed and can be directly increased by internal efforts to organize. That applies not just to internal awareness, but also public awareness: note that we're only having discussions about cases where employees attempted to organize other employees.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#96

Post by kick »

paxys wrote: post #26

Random thoughts: 1. I applaud the fact that they are actually quitting the company to voice their disapproval of these policies. In my mind all the "internal activism" happening at Google and others is massively hypocritical. One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks fueled by those very activities they despise. 2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minoriti…

2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minorities, contributing to climate change etc., they are in for a big shock once they are really out of the Google and SV bubble.

This is a particularly subversive brand of whataboutism.

"Company has participated in Bad Thing."

"Ah, but Other Company also participates in Bad Thing! Your criticism of Company is therefore invalid!"

"Company took $1,000,000,000 from Bad Industry! We should scold that behavior!"

"Ah, but Other Company took $2,000,000,000 from Bad Industry! Company therefore shouldn't be criticized!"

One action can be bad without negating the badness of another action.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#97

Post by cbanek »

ardit33 wrote: post #88
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the claim is that Google is more willing to dismiss LGBTQ employees for these issues than others. However, it's also plausible that LGBTQ employees are more accustomed to having to fight for their rights and hence have trended to be amongst the "loudest" complainants?

I don't know about google, and can't say about direct experience, but almost every tech company I have worked, LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least.... even amazon, was pretty equal about minorities and LGBTQ folks as they treated everyone equally crap....

> LGBTQ people were treated well, and in no way discriminated against, or at least in a visible way at least....

As a minority LGBTQ person, let me say it's almost never in a visible way, but trust me, it is there.

It's usually called something different, or dressed up as something else, just like how it is treated in political discourse.

The fact that it's not obvious only makes it worse and more unnerving for the gaslit target.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#98

Post by shadowgovt »

crdoconnor wrote: post #91
shadowgovt wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google spent decades selecting for these "moralizers" and is now reaping what it sowed; "don't be evil" was a cultural slogan that carries consequences if it attracts a particular kind of mindset. And in a few cases, yeah; HR is shitting bricks because it's losing people who built the underlying fabric of the system (which anyone who has built a large system will tell you increases risk to the entire software company…

>Google spent decades selecting for these "moralizers" and is now reaping what it sowed; "don't be evil" was a cultural slogan that carries consequences if it attracts a particular kind of mindset. And apparently that mindset drove an enormous amount of profit and, at least in the beginning, gave the company some sort of social conscience. It's amazing that you can be so against these things

If that last sentence was directed at me, I fail to see what you've perceived me to be against. I'm in favor of people who may feel they were sold a false bill of goods when they joined re-evaluating their position and either fighting internally to change the direction the ship is steering or leaving the company if they don't see the direction as changeable.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#99

Post by baddox »

scardycat wrote: post #73
baddox wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how? How do we know that employees provide more value than their compensation? Because Google makes profit.

So? Facebook makes profit, the gas station down the street makes profit. How does a software engineer at Google worth more value than one at timbuktu? No, they are not. They just are not in the right place at the right time. Do you think selling ads is changing the world? Do you think that makes you worth more than someone else? Wake up and smell the coffee.

When I say "value" in this context I'm just talking about money. I'm not making a moral value judgement about individuals or the company overall. All I'm saying is that employees are clearly creating more monetary value for the company than what they're being compensated.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#100

Post by s1artibartfast »

corporateslave5 wrote: post #4
bla3 wrote: post #2

> www.alphabetworkers.org/ > The trouble with deep belief > The reason it’s unlikely to work is that although you can persecute the prophets Sounds a bit full of themselves. They worked for a company, they no longer like the company, they quit. Great, move on. No need to make a big deal about it. It's just a job.

My thoughts exactly, this kind of thinking is really common among google employees. They think leaving is some “event”, it needs massive justification, a blog post, and manifesto to the world. I’ve seen this among friends that work there

I think it is some event, but the importance scales depending on your distance to it. I have had coworkers whose departure was a major shakeup to me and my life. More distant coworkers have provoked some thoughts. The departure of someone at another firm usually has no relevance to the general public.

I think it is reasonable to make a statement, but wonder who the target audience was in this case.

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