The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much • Hacker News Board

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#91

Post by hartror » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:20 AM UTC

haploid wrote: post #76

hartror wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love pop psychology books that tell me it is fine to be lazy and uncaring. /sarcasm We aren't talking about dating here, we are talking about long term relationships. The whole Red Queen thing breaks down when we add artificial human constructs such as marriage and monogamy. We are not a Silver Back leading a band of gorillas, we are far more complex than that. Sure, signalling plays a roll in initial conditions, i…

Just so I'm clear, are you suggesting that once one has consciously elected to enter into a long-term relationship, one's biological drives and genetic predispositions immediately shut down? Genetic expression and disposition toward gene-propagating behaviors do not cease to operate, no matter how far removed we think we are from the "lowly" Silverback. Your other points regarding human social behaviors are being qui…

Not at all, I am contending that there are far more complex social dynamics going on beyond the simplistic ape view that others are espousing. The fact we evolved from apes so our social brains are rooted in that make up is significant, however others seem to be treating it as significant to the exclusion of all else.

My original response to the whole "treat em mean, keep em keen" comment in fact makes a reverse argument using evolutionary biology. That is that this sort of behavior actually precludes building a successful relationship as the woman doesn't get the security she needs to raise her offspring.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#92

Post by cynicalkane » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:21 AM UTC

haploid wrote: post #38

_h4xr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend The Red Queen if you want to start learning about this. The short answer: men largely choose mates based on looks; women choose based more on social status. Signalling low social status reduces male attractiveness; signalling high social status raises it. n = 1, but this has worked for me. Deliberately act like you can take it or leave it, and you're unlikely to be left. (And note that women initiate the…

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of espousing an unpopular opinion amongst people who tend to irrationally believe magical romantic things about evolved bags of meat. It's a fairly well established biological fact( caveat - there are of course exceptions )that female primates, including humans, respond sexually favorably toward high status behavior on the part of males. The Red Queen is a good b…

Both you and yummyfajitas are making the classic error of falling for cynical pop-science just so stories. This evolutionary psychology and biology stuff applied to humans is still pretty new and pretty far from "well established biological fact", and it comes with all the caveats of human behavioral research plus the added trappings of being a scientific fad.

In particular, there is plenty of room in evo-psych for pair bonding and long term relationships. Historically and across diverse cultures these relationships have generally been the dominant method of producing children, so I'd say it's a pretty OK evolutionary strategy. The 'scientific' evidence is all around you, evolved bag of meat.

And in long term relationships, effort is not optional.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#93

Post by OasisG » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:22 AM UTC

Dylanlacey wrote: post #81

OasisG wrote: post #5

Then party like it's 1950. ETA: With the growing number of men who refuse to pick up every check, plan every date/event, act as sole provider for the family, purchase gifts regularly for their other half, etc. for fear of marrying a woman who is too focused on money... I'm really beginning to wonder what women are getting out of this marriage deal anymore.

Wow, I don't know, the same thing the men are getting, an equal life-partner who they have a very strong emotional attachment to? There's the legal benefits for both partners, social recognition of your relationship, legal benefits for any children, possibly the sanction of your chosen religion... Sure, if what you want from a relationship is things, stuff, and to not have to work, more power to you... But I have no…

You are missing my point. The comment isn't about me. It's about men who have these old-fashioned expectations of women, but don't reciprocate by fulfilling the traditional role for a man.

That is, if I have to sit quietly, look pretty, and clean house, what am I getting in return? Not much these days.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#94

Post by pyre » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:30 AM UTC

smallblacksun wrote: post #64

johngalt wrote: post #10

The secret to writing a linkbait title: reinforce stereotypes.

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

To oppress races of people that we don't like so much?

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#95

Post by hartror » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:30 AM UTC

spoondan wrote: post #88

hartror wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I don't understand your comment could you rephrase?

It's the difference between "do" and "should". He's saying the book claims to explain human behavior; it doesn't recommend or justify that behavior.

Yet others are using it to recommend and justify the behavior.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#96

Post by kingkawn » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:31 AM UTC

Having fun together rather than parsing out your problems is the key to success. Sometimes you have to do the Talk, but if it becomes the norm you're doomed.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#97

Post by spoondan » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:34 AM UTC

haploid wrote: post #45

[deleted] wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

"My personal belief is that if a woman chose you for your social status, you made a mistake getting involved with her." I'd suggest reading the book cited by the grandparent. You're a little naive on the topic. The vast majority of women marry for social or financial status, but it's an unconscious mechanism. In the end, it's all about optimizing genetic fitness and resource availability. Our genes do this automatica…

The vast majority of women marry for social or financial status, but it's an unconscious mechanism. In the end, it's all about optimizing genetic fitness and resource availability. Our genes do this automatically, and it's not limited to humans.

Are you saying that the book cites research to backup these extraordinary claims? While I'm little more than a dilettante, I can't see how I could completely avoid hearing that a social behavior as complex as marriage had been pinned to genetics.

What I've heard is that surveys have shown women will find a man more attractive if they believe he's wealthy. I have not seen it shown that this is wholly unconscious, let alone genetic (rather than cultural). And I have not seen it claimed that this effect dictates why women marry particular men.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#98

Post by pyre » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:36 AM UTC

OasisG wrote: post #5

Then party like it's 1950. ETA: With the growing number of men who refuse to pick up every check, plan every date/event, act as sole provider for the family, purchase gifts regularly for their other half, etc. for fear of marrying a woman who is too focused on money... I'm really beginning to wonder what women are getting out of this marriage deal anymore.

I can only speak personally, but once you actually make the commitment, you personally feel more of a responsibility to work things out with your partner. Prior to marriage, you aren't necessarily 'tied down' and you could easily just break-up over something that could have been worked out if one (or both) of you decided not to be so pig-headed.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#99

Post by colanderman » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:40 AM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #85

colanderman wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds way more expensive than: "Hunny, I appreciate that you want to help me remember what needs doing, but it's overwhelming if you tell me as soon as I come home from a long day at work. I know I have a habit of forgetting, so let's make a deal: if I forget to do something come 9 PM, I'll take on one of your chores the next day. Does that sound fair to you?" Or if your SO can take the hint from humor: "If I had a…

I always thought it was "honey" -- like the stuff bees make?

You're probably right. I think "hunny" is derived "honey" -> "hun" -> "hunny" though.

Re: The Secret to a Happy Marriage: Do the Dishes, Put Out, Don’t Talk So Much

#100

Post by civilian » Tue, Feb 15, 2011, 1:41 AM UTC

A lot of you are getting caught up in stereotypes. When I read this article I didn't see it as being specifically written for men or women-- shouldn't both parties be doing these things?