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Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

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91–100 of 197 posts

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#91

Voting by mobile is extremely problematic and shocking. 1. No paper record. 2. No privacy. A better way would be to use anonymous physical RFID pebbles that are placed in a container to indicate voting preference. Votes can be both weighed and scanned for counting redundancy very quickly. Mail-in voting would consist of mailing back the pebble chit in an outside return envelope with an inner vote envelope designating…

Inner envelope would need to block RFID signals or votes could be lost based on preference.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#92

I want to point out that voting in Washington state is incredibly easy. They mail you a ballot, and a packet with detailed information on every single candidate and issue, and then you can drop your ballot just about anywhere - supermarket, mailbox, probably the street (who knows). It's probably the best voting system, hands down. I don't buy that a smartphone magically hits some convenience threshold that turns out…

This election they're implementing the smartphone option for a local election has less than 1% participation rate. The goal is to show mobile option can boost voter turnout.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#93
post #10

> King County voters will be able to use their name and birthdate to log in to a Web portal through the Internet browser on their phones, says Bryan Finney, the CEO of Democracy Live, the Seattle-based voting company providing the technology. Oh, really? > Once voters have completed their ballots, they must verify their submissions and then submit a signature on the touch screen of their device. Huh? > Finney says el…

Wholeheartedly disagree-- if casting a ballot was as easy as sending a text instead of receiving and then mailing a letter or going to a polling location, I would predict much higher participation. People don't see it worth their time because a single vote really isn't worth anyone's time. Votes only matter as groups! So obviously you have to make it as braindead simple to vote as we have made everything else. What I…

If you making voting online easy, we could easily see >100% participation - and that's the concern.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because casting votes online makes it easy to start voting market where you get perks for voting in desired direction.

I could just as easily start a system right now where I'll send you $15 to get a absentee ballot, vote how I want, and take a picture of it with some kind of unique identifier (post it note with your username on it, for example) before mailing it in. It's possible that a much lower price would even work too, since if you were going to vote my way anyway, you'd do it for free. So I only have to convince the voters on…

That technique leaves quite a lot of evidence around.

Not only do you need every voter you buy the vote from to never speak up about it, but you also need to somehow hide all the mailing of absentee ballots, hide where you mail them back from, and your money needs to be clean and untraceable to yourself. AND all of that needs to happen right around election time.

But hacking an electronic machine can be done by a few people making changes to a warehouse of voting machines by impersonating a janitor 2 years before the election. And that's not hypothetical, 100% of voting machines that have been in the hands of hackers have been exploited to change votes. I myself used to sneak into the room where they kept the voting machines in my high school when I was younger.

"online" voting is even easier to hack. You could attack the users by buying a botnet and have it submit or change the votes on the client machines before they cast them, you could attack the servers via things like evil maid attacks on the server hardware, "normal" exploits on their software to gain access to the systems, even just paying the sysadmin that maintains it a few hundred million dollars to look the other way for a few days.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why local news is incredibly important, their job is to decipher this for you. For national things like Presidential elections, I couldn't care less who my local newspaper endorses, but for local elections I care quite a lot. If you're in the Seattle area, try to support the Seattle Times or the Stranger; they have different political leanings and you may like one and hate the other, but they both do good wor…

When I lived in Seattle my voting process was basically "find the Stranger's recommendations, read through them, and very occasionally look deeper into one issue or office". This is definitely an important function of local news, they spend hours trying to make sense of this stuff and tease out hidden connections so you don't have to.

Don't just look at the Stranger. They are fully capable of making some bad, bad recommendations, often for very petty reasons.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#96
I like the pageantry and ceremony of paper ballots at specific voting locations followed by manual paper ballot counting. I know in principle it's easy to automate this away by introducing online voting and other things ... I think those things will further alienate people from their local communities and society at large.

Keep paper ballots because they are inefficient.

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's probably the best voting system, hands down. The disadvantage to this system is the erosion of the secret ballot. Someone ( e.g. an employer, spouse or friend) can now ask you for proof of your vote. (I think absentee ballots should be voidable in person.)

Personally, I have never had this happen nor heard of it happening. Not to say it shouldn't be a concern, but I am reluctant to buy in to the idea based on a complete hypothetical. Needless to say, someone demanding to see my vote counts as a felony still in our state. Maybe it occasionally happens? But it would take thousands of deliberate felonies to meaningfully change an election.

> I have never had this happen nor heard of it happening

I've canvassed in New Jersey where one spouse was surprised by the other's party registration, and had two incidences where it broke into an argument in front of me.

> someone demanding to see my vote counts as a felony still in our state

The line between demanding or requiring and politely, but firmly, requesting is legally blurry and practically meaningless.

Agree this is an edge case problem. (I support mailed-in ballots.)

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting without the information packet seems mind boggling to me. But then I realize that's how 99% of the world votes and I understand so much more now.

Yeah, it’s always bothered me—after growing up in CA with information packets—that, now living in TN, there are no such packets mailed to voters. I still don’t understand how anyone feels comfortable voting on anything or anyone at local, county, and state levels here (myself included). Finding impartial information and analysis on measures is extremely difficult (I hesitate to say impossible, but it pretty much is f…

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Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#99
post #77
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if you could pre-print your completed ballot Your printer will betray you by printing invisible identifying dots on your ballot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

How would that betray you? They're supposed to verify that this ballot belongs to you in the first place.

I'm confused - wouldn't that mean the vote isn't secret?

Re: Seattle-area voters to vote by smartphone in district election

#100
post #10

> King County voters will be able to use their name and birthdate to log in to a Web portal through the Internet browser on their phones, says Bryan Finney, the CEO of Democracy Live, the Seattle-based voting company providing the technology. Oh, really? > Once voters have completed their ballots, they must verify their submissions and then submit a signature on the touch screen of their device. Huh? > Finney says el…

Wholeheartedly disagree-- if casting a ballot was as easy as sending a text instead of receiving and then mailing a letter or going to a polling location, I would predict much higher participation. People don't see it worth their time because a single vote really isn't worth anyone's time. Votes only matter as groups! So obviously you have to make it as braindead simple to vote as we have made everything else. What I…

Voter turnout is much higher than 1% on the November elections. Sure, reducing the effort of any given vote would help turnout; but also aligning this election with the general election would likely help (it also helps with the cost of elections).
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