How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics • Hacker News Board

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#91

Post by ronald_dregan » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #83

izzydata wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

Any competitive game with big money on the line has the top players gather in the same room (on a stage most likely), and play using computers controlled by the event organizers. The players winning these big tournaments do not cheat.

there used to be a way to embed cheats within your steam profile directly (abusing some other feature to do so) and it'd activate on login. some guy got caught in a tournament using one.

they probably dont let people sign into their own accounts anymore lol

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#92

Post by izzydata » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:23 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #83

izzydata wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rise of esports there is a lot of money to be made with no real consequences. It isn't illegal to essentially steal prize money by cheating at a video game. Also game streaming is big now and being "good" attracts more viewers so there is also a lot of money to be made by cheating. I have completely stopped taking video games seriously in any capacity as I am pretty confident the entire culture of competitiv…

Any competitive game with big money on the line has the top players gather in the same room (on a stage most likely), and play using computers controlled by the event organizers. The players winning these big tournaments do not cheat.

You aren't thinking outside the box enough. If you could commission cheating software for $10,000+ then there is plenty you could do to circumvent the PCs being provided. It should also be noted that they allow self provided peripherals in most cases.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#93

Post by AWildC182 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

m4rtink wrote: post #72

Heavy duty sandboxing of game software can't come quickly enough. Game software reading arbitrary memory outside of its own on a machine is half step from outright malware and must stop.

That's not how computers work. If you own the OS, you can do whatever you want and the game software is subject to the whims of your universe. The closest you can come is with "consoles" where you just attempt to prevent everyone from running code other than yours.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#94

Post by ggggtez » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:30 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #87

withinboredom wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some just want to enjoy the story-telling and skip the bs.

There should be a distinction between single player and multiplayer games. I've absolutely used cheat-engine in single player games. If it was up to me, entering the Konami code would unlock everything in every single player game. Everyone has the right to access content they've purchased in the way and order they see fit. But when you're playing with other people there's really no excuse.

I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of multiplayer games, to be honest.

Consider games like WoW. Ask anyone what the game is like, and you'll find that the game "doesn't really begin" until you are already max level. That is, the "real" content of the game is all of the Guild-related activities. Everything up to that point is more or less an extended tutorial that lasts for dozens of hours.

Cheating because you want to skip the "tutorial" and quickly get to the point where you can play at the same level as your friends seems like a perfectly reasonable goal. In fact, now a days I believe WoW provides a free (high) level character for all new players, but for a long time, you needed to run through that grind yourself, or pay a microtransaction to skip up.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#95

Post by willis936 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #62

willis936 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s petty justification for violation of the golden rule. Nothing deeper.

The golden rule doesn't apply, because none of the cheaters would complain that there are also other cheaters cheating.

The golden rule always applies. There are not exceptions in criminal law for people who want specific crimes committed against them (ie sexual assault).

To further argue the point: if all players were cheating then there would be no competitive advantage to cheating, which eliminates the only reason a subset of players cheat in the first place. Even by skewed standards it violates the golden rule.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#96

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

pastrami_panda wrote: post #46

Speaking in terms of fps games I believe it to be very easy for any human to detect aimbots when reviewing gameplay footage. Wallhacks are a bit trickier to detect, and probably requires longer reviews, but I'd estimate that above average players could quite accurately detect this hack as well. This leads me to believe this should be quite a good fit for machine learning, no? It just seems like a problem that lives i…

Steam has done this. http://www.kitguru.net/gaming/matthew-wilson/valve-to-use-ma...

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#97

Post by Shivetya » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

well this sent me down a rabbit hole that is utterly fascinating.

with regards to cheating, I understand the need to present a fair playing experience to all customers but as with anything else, people are the one variable we have the least control over and with the numbers games as with any service have to deal with you are guaranteed to get bad actors.

the simple avoidance to those who see this is spyware/etc is not you play. I do not see this choice as a bad one. for some it is abhorrent but for others playing where cheaters have free reign is just as abhorrent. so unless you can fix people you choose what you are willing to accept

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#98

Post by kradroy » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #28

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

There are different kinds of cheaters. Some like the rush of doing something "naughty". Some want quick results. Some want prestige. Some want to explore and exploit the system itself rather than the game. Some want to gold farm. Some want to be like gods. Some want to automate the tedious parts. Some want to take down big mobs that can't be taken down any other way. I once wrote about 400k of Blech code for Macroque…

I used Macroquest as well for leveling up tradeskills. I did a few skills manually. Blacksmithing was the worst, and there was no way I would do it manually. I also used ShowEQ for checking whether certain mobs were up in a zone.

Looking back there was a lot of tedium in Everquest. Tradeskills. Attunement. AA points. Traveling was a pain in the first few expansions. I don't deny that I was cheating, but certain types of cheating can reveal flaws in the fundamentals of the game.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#99

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

nneonneo wrote: post #27

saagarjha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call this spyware; it doesn't seem to reach outside of its own process (though I guess it does report back what you could call analytics).

BattlEye apparently comes with a kernel component called BEDaisy which preemptively tries to block attempts to patch Windows API functions. That has some people calling it a root kit or spyware.

Many long running undetected game hacks use kernel hooks. If the hack runs before the anti cheat or with higher privileges then the anti cheat is just a resource hog.

Re: How anti-cheats catch cheaters using memory heuristics

#100

Post by lmilcin » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

ARandomerDude wrote: post #2

Serious question for you gamers out there: Why would a person go to such great lengths to cheat at a video game? Is there a monetary incentive? Otherwise, it seems like a lot of effort just to increase one's standing on a leader board.

You are making mistake by trying to explain somebody elses motives for cheating by using your value system.

First, these are not great lengths when all you need to do is download and install an application.

Second, some people don't get as much kick from playing a game as from dominating other players. They want to win the game in any way possible, but don't consider winning fairly to be any more satisfying than winning with cheating. They might be in denial over their abilities and use cheating to feel better. They don't feel any need to be courteous or fair. These are people who, when they loose a game against you, will say "fuck you" instead of congratulating you.

Don't try to find logic where there isn't any.