Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 146 posts

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#91

Post by bamboozled »

hsavit1 wrote: post #74
bamboozled wrote: post #69

It’s likely to kill everyone of us. From the rich to the poor, strong to the weak, through famine, war and drought. Natural disaster after natural disaster. Horror after horror. Tragedy after tragedy. Yet we’re all in state of paralysis, watching our impending doom draw closer and fates unfold. Entrusting those who will do nothing about it. Half of us are still in denial. I really wonder if we possess the survival in…

500 million animals wiped out in the blink of an eye and we look the other way. When humans start dying, I think we will continue to look the other way.

Hardly a whimper for them.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#92

Post by bamboozled »

K0SM0S wrote: post #83
bamboozled wrote: post #69

It’s likely to kill everyone of us. From the rich to the poor, strong to the weak, through famine, war and drought. Natural disaster after natural disaster. Horror after horror. Tragedy after tragedy. Yet we’re all in state of paralysis, watching our impending doom draw closer and fates unfold. Entrusting those who will do nothing about it. Half of us are still in denial. I really wonder if we possess the survival in…

I think it's generational, and it will get better in the 2030-2040s at the latest, when millennials become the dominant generation. The ethos of climate awareness is simply not present enough in previous generations, the seeds were simply too few, too weak, too late. They quite literally were not born in a world where 'it' was a thing. Here's my other comment below for details.[1] This is compoundd by the fact that "…

It will be too late by then, way too late.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#93

Post by xoa »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #80
X0Refraction wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With just a few big markets making the changes the rest of the world could be steered in the correct direction surely? If the US/EU etc. required that products coming in from China (or other countries where we offload our carbon use to) were created with less than X carbon released (differing per product) and with independent verification then they'd make the changes I'd imagine. Prices would go up of course which is…

This is a very happy path engineering design. What will you do with countries who refuse to comply? Will you bomb them? Will you sanction/starve them to death? Is this really an existential crisis for our species? I want to know what cards you're willing to put on the table.

>What will you do with countries who refuse to comply?

What are you on about? They can't "refuse to comply" in the above scenario, because it's a matter of pricing in carbon on imports. They can either comply with a process to verify that all carbon inputs have already been neutralized, pay the cost to neutralize them, or else America/EU/Japan/whoever else participates will simply slap on a very conservative carbon price themselves. No cooperation is necessary, if they don't want to bother their products will simply be priced somewhat higher than if they had and thus they'll probably sell less.

>Is this really an existential crisis for our species?

Well, yeah, but at this point a lot could be done just by the first world fixing its markets to properly internalize carbon emissions and make all fossil fuels carbon neutral, which will then also help make a path for ramping up of negative emissions. China is certainly one of the biggest economies, but even they aren't in a position to just give up on all exports to the first world without more expense than just participating in a proper free market. It's in their interest too anyway.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#94

Post by blueatlas »

squarefoot wrote: post #62
mikro2nd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might not get the chance: latest news[1] this morning is that some of the coal seams have caught fire underground! This is catastrophic. Underground coal (and oil) fires are near-impossible to put out and are generally just left alone to burn, usually for decades before/if they run out of fuel. [1] https://twitter.com/maetl/status/1213420680579964929?s=20

If that's the case then it's truly catastrophic. As an example, the Centralia (USA) mine coal-seam fire started in 1962 is extimated to last for about 250 more years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire Assuming we have the technology, removing underground oxygen might help to put out the underground fires, though I can't imagine any process not involving either pumping sea water down there which would…

Carbondale, PA tried flooding and other techniques for the time (1950's), but ultimately the only way to extinguish it was by digging it out. It took about 10 years and it is estimated more earth than the Panama Canal was moved for the dig. It came within 20 feet of expanding into the core of the city and leading to what happened in Centrailia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbondale_mine_fire

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#95

Post by Consultant32452 »

windexh8er wrote: post #84
Consultant32452 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this approach, which I was trying to highlight, is that as long as "doing better by climate change" implies "economic disadvantage" there will be major polluters who do not get on board. What will you do with them? If you really believe this is an existential crisis for humanity, you must be willing to destroy these countries. Choose your poison: bomb them to oblivion or sanction/starve them to death…

Your logic assumes everything in the world to be equal. The world is messy. If we don't start we all lose. The Internet wasn't bootstrapped because the world's countries all agreed on exactly the right way to implement networks and protocols and there are countries that have both contributed very little opposed to those that have contributed a lot. Moving to clean energy has huge economic advantage. So, again, your g…

>If we don't start we all lose.

I didn't suggest we don't start. I suggested the "everyone pass laws" plan has a fatal flaw the size of China and India.

>your get on board or be destroyed is counterproductive and irrational.

That's not my plan, it's yours. "Laws" are the get on board or be destroyed approach. You can do it domestically pretty easy, but it's much harder across national boundaries.

>Heavy, one off, polluters can be dealt with after the fact.

China already emits more than twice the US CO2. China is on track to double its emissions by 2030. How far are you willing to go to stop them? It's a very simple question.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#96

Post by exdsq »

nl wrote: post #22
bureaucrat wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I was growing up here in the 90s; we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months. Where? In your imagination? https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148642/1990/Historical-Weather-... https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148509/1990/Historical-Weather-... https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148455/1990/Historical-Weather-... https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148594/1990/Historical-Weather-...

Charitable, Ufa in Russia gets pretty close: https://weatherspark.com/h/y/148894/1990/Historical-Weather-...

And that is litterally as east in Europe one can go - I honestly didn’t realise how far into Russia you can go before crossing the Ural Mountains.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#97

Post by crisdux »

bamboozled wrote: post #69

It’s likely to kill everyone of us. From the rich to the poor, strong to the weak, through famine, war and drought. Natural disaster after natural disaster. Horror after horror. Tragedy after tragedy. Yet we’re all in state of paralysis, watching our impending doom draw closer and fates unfold. Entrusting those who will do nothing about it. Half of us are still in denial. I really wonder if we possess the survival in…

This comment is such shrill alarmist rhetoric that is not founded in reality. I think taking this approach is more harmful to your cause then you think.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#98

Post by X0Refraction »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #80
X0Refraction wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With just a few big markets making the changes the rest of the world could be steered in the correct direction surely? If the US/EU etc. required that products coming in from China (or other countries where we offload our carbon use to) were created with less than X carbon released (differing per product) and with independent verification then they'd make the changes I'd imagine. Prices would go up of course which is…

This is a very happy path engineering design. What will you do with countries who refuse to comply? Will you bomb them? Will you sanction/starve them to death? Is this really an existential crisis for our species? I want to know what cards you're willing to put on the table.

Tariff's don't have to be high enough to starve out countries to cause change, most people seem to agree that the Chinese people only tolerate the CCP because their economy is growing, if tariff's slowed that then they'd be under pressure to do something to fix it. There are similar situations in countries all over the world.

Personally I think it is an existential threat to our way of life - if you take the most conservative predictions then at the very least there's going to be disruption to the global food supply (maybe not enough to starve everyone, but there'll be much less choice than now) and mass migration due to drought which could very easily kick off WW3.

I do believe though that if the political will was there in the big Western markets the worst of this could be avoided without it having to come to conflict. Most experts seem to be of the same opinion, the vast majority say a carbon tax is the best method available to avoid the worst effects of climate change.

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#99

Post by skilled »

kmlx wrote: post #32
skilled wrote: post #6

Living in Eastern Europe right now. It's +6 Celsius for the last week. Earth hasn't frozen yet, so if any snow falls it melts in a few hours. In comparison, when I was growing up here in the 90s; we had solid -30 Celsius winters for several months. You had to prepare opposed to nowadays, where buying a winter jacket comes down to preference. Cold or not cold... But climate change is a hoax, right?

weather isn't climate

climate /ˈklʌɪmət/

noun

the weather conditions prevailing in an area in general or over a long period. "our cold, wet climate"

Re: Climate change now detectable from any single day of weather at global scale

#100

Post by selimthegrim »

scrollaway wrote: post #49
selimthegrim wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a source for this assertion?

It's a decently well-known phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-seam_fire For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia_mine_fire -- Started burning in 1962. Still burning today and on track to burn for another 250 years.

I meant the news item, but thank you.
Post reply on HN