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Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

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Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#91

Post by INGELRII »

samatman wrote: post #49
INGELRII wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not mutually exclusive. * Sometimes individuals must break the law for greater good. This is called civil disobedience, or civil resistance. * Just because one is breaking the law for common good, civil servants can't and should not be expected to stop enforcing the law. If you allow that, it's the end of the rule of law based society. The whole idea of just society is that you restrict what individuals in the g…

Civil disobedience is breaking a law because you believe the law itself is wrong. As invented by Thoreau, and practiced by Gandhi and MLK. Breaking a law you otherwise believe in, in the service of some broader goal, is called direct action, riot, or terrorism, depending on the severity of the law broken, and/or the sympathies of the person describing it.

In both cases, if you believe in society based on laws, what I said stands. Agreed?

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#92

Post by megous »

foldr wrote: post #70
MiroF wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically in the UK he would have been released by now since he was sentenced for under a year. Unsure why the snark is necessary

He's in custody awaiting his extradition hearing, which is perfectly normal. (Do we need to explain why granting Assange bail would probably be a bad idea?)

Perfectly normal is a bit of a stretch here, right? Unless you mean that putting accused people to solitary confinement (while waiting for a trial) for extended periods of time is perfectly normal in UK.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#93

Post by sokoloff »

cardamomo wrote: post #83

*her

Genuine question: what is the most correct protocol on name and pronoun usage to describe past events, when the author wants to keep the focus on the fact of the accomplishment rather than the personal life of the actor?

Is it:

1. Bruce Jenner won his gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics.

2. Bruce Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics.

3. Caitlyn Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#94

Post by Karunamon »

nabla9 wrote: post #66
sneak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has not yet been put on trial. He must be presumed innocent of all charges until such time that he is. Torturing even a guilty person is not acceptable. Torturing an innocent one is presumably less so.

Assange is presumed innocent. Assange is in jail because his lawyers are challenging the US extradition request and there is legal process going on. There is no evidence of him being tortured. He seems to have mental problems. People getting mentally ill in jails is very common.

Solitary confinement is, at least, very unethical given its known deleterious impacts on mental health[1][2], and can be considered torture for most purposes[3].

[1]: https://semanticscholar.org/paper/8f8fbb6bd68357311bb82e48a8...

[2]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/30/hellhole

[3]: http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2015/spring/co...

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#95

Post by rbobby »

yk wrote: post #76
rbobby wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange doesn't qualify for bail (he is a flight risk/certainty) so he stays in custody until the hearings are done. Made his bed and now has to lie in it.

Having him 23 h a day in solitary confinement and not allowing him to call his mom seems a bit harsh, if they are concerned that he's a flight risk.

I would think he's in protective custody because he would be in extreme danger in general population. He's a celebrity and would likely be viewed as rapist and traitor (the facts don't matter, what matters is what the other criminals would think).

A good question is whether he needs to be held in a maximum security facility. He's a bail flight risk, but is he an escape risk? I would think he's at most a moderate escape risk (has some capabilities and has shown his contempt for the legal system previously) and would be fine in something less than maximum security (so long as protective custody could be maintained).

I do know Assange has a competent legal team that would fight his being held in maximum security if Assange wanted them too. I wonder why he hasn't instructed them to do so.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#96

Post by malvosenior »

tptacek wrote: post #88
Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

Wikileaks does not have a faultless record. For example: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/07/why-did-wikileaks-hel...

That's an example of "like him or not", it's not a retraction and nothing published was false.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#97

Post by jacobush »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

We need to be very exact in these matters. The problem with the rape charges is that very, very likely he would have been convicted under Swedish law, which is very strict on what counts as rape. (If proof could be produced.) What is a farce is how the case went on and on, and how the plaintiffs didn't even seem to want to hang on the to case, and how a crime which is routinely buried in cold cases by Swedish Police suddenly became the top priority of the state (country, for you US-people) prosecutor. And so on. There is a kernel of truth. Everything else is a farce. If we don't acknowledge the kernel, we risk debating the merits of the case, when there is the political machine around it which merits most interest. (In global politics, not in the personal lives of the plaintiff, I have great respect for them too.)

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#98

Post by MiroF »

megous wrote: post #92
foldr wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's in custody awaiting his extradition hearing, which is perfectly normal. (Do we need to explain why granting Assange bail would probably be a bad idea?)

Perfectly normal is a bit of a stretch here, right? Unless you mean that putting accused people to solitary confinement (while waiting for a trial) for extended periods of time is perfectly normal in UK.

It's not and the vast vast majority of those sentenced to under a year (even for skipping bail) are released in 2/3 time as per sentencing guidelines in the UK.

Unsure why so many people are invested in arguing that this is just the routine functioning of the law when it certainly isn't

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#99

Post by MiroF »

sokoloff wrote: post #93
cardamomo wrote: post #83

*her

Genuine question: what is the most correct protocol on name and pronoun usage to describe past events, when the author wants to keep the focus on the fact of the accomplishment rather than the personal life of the actor? Is it: 1. Bruce Jenner won his gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics. 2. Bruce Jenner won her gold medal in the Men’s Decathlon at the 1976 Olympics. 3. Caitlyn Jenner won her gold m…

Good question - I was going to correct someone earlier in the thread and I then realized I didn't know the answer to that one myself

I would say there's certainly no harm in using the current pronouns

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#100

Post by threeseed »

benologist wrote: post #78
bbatha wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snowden had already exfiltrated the documents by the time he coordinated with journalists to publish them. Assange allegedly instructed Manning on how to exfiltrate the documents and directed Manning’s exfiltration process. Publishing is protected by the first amendment, stealing classified documents is not and ergo conspiracy to steal documents is not.

Assange broke US laws that he was never subject to, as an Australian living in Europe.

That's not how the entire fabric of international law works though.

Citizenship and postal address are irrelevant. If you break the law in another country and there is an extradition treaty then you will face the consequences.

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