Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 478 posts

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#91

Post by gok »

jacquesm wrote: post #38
gok wrote: post #5

> Someone recycled five of these Sonos Play:5 speakers. They're worth $250 each, used, and these are in good condition. They could easily be reused. Then the owner should have sold (given?) them as-is, rather than trying to double dip by telling Sonos they were going to recycle them for parts (for which they pay you $120) then not doing so.

Screwing over companies that screw over the environment is morally sound.

How is it screwing over Sonos? The credit can only be spent on new Sonos equipment. Or are you talking about the OP's company, who is cashing on people's desire to recycle?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#92

Post by xp84 »

londons_explore wrote: post #75
rkochman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true?

> I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true? For high brand value goods, generally no. Goods are crushed to become unserviceable. It's important to do that to maintain brand image, otherwise floods of not-very-old iPhones end up on ebay for $10, and the image of an iPhone as something that lasts and has resale value is shattered. High end…

Sure, many things do get destroyed for branding reasons.

This is an overgeneralization though to say that's definitely what Apple or someone else normally does with electronics. Plenty of the devices Apple gets back (or significant components from them) do end up on the refurbished channel. And the same goes for all their competitors. Tons of phones are refurbished. Go on eBay or Amazon or Groupon etc and there are hundreds of models available in quantity. These come from phone trade-in programs.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#93

Post by rarecoil »

londons_explore wrote: post #75
rkochman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true?

> I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true? For high brand value goods, generally no. Goods are crushed to become unserviceable. It's important to do that to maintain brand image, otherwise floods of not-very-old iPhones end up on ebay for $10, and the image of an iPhone as something that lasts and has resale value is shattered. High end…

> The actual metal and plastic is worth hardly anything, so destroying it isn't a big loss. Even the manufacturing cost is near zero because after launch day of a specific model, the marginal cost to produce one more phone is pretty much zero because production lines are rarely still at capacity.

A big loss economically, maybe, but in terms of energy/carbon losses, to say it's more efficient to just crush the thing and make a new one seems false. You've pushed from number 1 on the Reuse->Reduce->Recycle->Recover->Landfill to steps 3 and 4, and then created a new iPhone in its place.

Throughout its life, a single iPhone 11 Pro Max is 86 kg CO2e [1]. The XS Max that existed and is crushed to "preserve brand value" is 77 kg CO2e [2] in footprint. Just in manufacturing costs alone, you are creating more CO2e creating the new one than the XS Max did, and taking the XS Max out-of-life early. We are not taking into account you now get to recycle the XS Max or just dump it in landfill.

Destruction of an existing item for "brand value" is not the correct environmental answer.

[1] https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/iphone/iPhone...

[2] https://www.apple.com/environment/pdf/products/iphone/iPhone...

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#94

Post by rowanG077 »

bathtub365 wrote: post #50
gok wrote: post #5

> Someone recycled five of these Sonos Play:5 speakers. They're worth $250 each, used, and these are in good condition. They could easily be reused. Then the owner should have sold (given?) them as-is, rather than trying to double dip by telling Sonos they were going to recycle them for parts (for which they pay you $120) then not doing so.

The owner did try to recycle them for parts, by giving them to the recycling centre.

There is a difference between reuse and recycle. A recycling centre won't generally reuse parts of a products it's just separated and new raw material is created from it if possible.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#95

Post by seriesf »

starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

That isn't accurate. Sonos works perfectly well on an isolated network, reading your music from a local SMB share or getting it from the line-level input of any Sonos on the network.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#96

Post by xp84 »

oh_sigh wrote: post #72
IanCal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like Sonos can easily reactivate them, right? That's not a bricking, is it?

They've refused to remove people from the blacklist who have accidentally put the devices into recycle mode

That really says a lot. I've seen plenty of companies who would have to tell you tough luck, no exceptions if you have a device which is "accidentally" on like a stolen blacklist (take iCloud activation lock for example), since if they have the ability to ever bend the rules, it'll be exploited by thieves -- but the funny part here is that 100% of the devices in "recycled" status are just there because Sonos gave someone a coupon, so the only "reason" for a zero-tolerance policy against reactivation in any circumstances is revenue protection.

Disgusting.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#97

Post by baybal2 »

noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

If you are into this, I can suggest you take a look at this gear: https://mobile.twitter.com/amiteque

A boutique outfit from Shenzhen makes that.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#98

Post by TeMPOraL »

reeddavid wrote: post #23

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Wonder how long these apparel companies will keep it up. I remember reading not so long ago that some well-known clothes companies realized that people are interested in buying used high-quality clothes, and so they started manufacturing new clothes using worse materials and process but to the same design as quality ones, and then sell these fake-used clothes as "worn".

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#99

Post by jacquesm »

cellularmitosis wrote: post #74
wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

For a physical device (ie featured-locked upon shipping), “support” amounts to paying the server bill, which is likely negligible.

That's the problem right there, for a hardware manufacturer post shipping there shouldn't be a server.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#100

Post by atomicthumbs »

gok wrote: post #5

> Someone recycled five of these Sonos Play:5 speakers. They're worth $250 each, used, and these are in good condition. They could easily be reused. Then the owner should have sold (given?) them as-is, rather than trying to double dip by telling Sonos they were going to recycle them for parts (for which they pay you $120) then not doing so.

We are an e-waste collector, we have to pay to recycle most electronics we receive, and the only reason we still exist as a business is because we do the environmentally friendly thing of ensuring as many devices as possible is refurbished and resold.
Post reply on HN