I have to imagine soon, given that we are about to pass the third, impassable deadline for saving the world from climate change (2020).
[deleted]
When will the Netherlands disappear?
91–100 of 186 posts
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#92It won't. NL has been preparing quite hard for a rise in sea level and/or worse storms. The port of IJmuiden is being overhauled, the shoreline defenses have all been raised, in some places only about 3 ft, in others much more depending on the likelihood of flooding. A bigger problem is that during an extended period of high water that the rivers won't be able to drain into the North Sea and studies are being made on…
I may be biased because I live in the NL and I live slightly below sea level. But I would be more worried to live on the coast somewhere else that has no history of dealing with these kinds of problems.
In some sense The Netherlands is the only country on the planet to have the political structures in place to deal with rising sea waters.
What do people think Florida is going to do? They're already losing their drinking water and they're still in denial.
And it really is about having social and political structures in place to deal with problems of this magnitude. The engineering questions are largely understood. Build pumps, dikes and create flood plains. We shouldn't focus on the engineering problems. The problem is one of coordination and mass mobilization of political will, and that already exists here.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#93I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
The protests are related to regulations for nitrogen emissions, not greenhouse gases. So it's not related to this "demise" nonsense. And if there should be a demise -- well, the Dutch contribution to global GHG emissions is almost negligible these days. As for nitrogen emissions, these have more than halved since 1990. We could still do better, but if Dutch agricultural production moves abroad it will certainly be replaced by dirtier production methods. Net result globally will be negative, even if we manage to protect Dutch Natura2000 areas.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#94> disasters such as the 1953 storm that breached the dikes and flooded almost a tenth of Dutch farmland. The disaster killed 1,836 people, destroyed homes and drowned tens of thousands of animals.
Wow, never heard about that.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#95I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
Farmers do not add climatgases that haven't been cycled. But hey let's bash the car industrys nearly state controlled designated bash industry. Way comfier then changing ones own lifestyle.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#96I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
I do not know the details, but it is my understanding that the Netherlands exports a large amount of its agricultural production. One could say, let's only produce what we need, and methane production will go down. However, if that was done, all of the countries that rely on the Netherlands for agricultural imports would need to increase production or find somewhere else that would. There is no guarantee that using country level caps will improve anything.
Unless I'm missing something, maybe it would be better to assign the emission penalty of a product to the consumer rather than the producer?
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#97I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
I do not know the details, but it is my understanding that the Netherlands exports a large amount of its agricultural production. One could say, let's only produce what we need, and methane production will go down. However, if that was done, all of the countries that rely on the Netherlands for agricultural imports would need to increase production or find somewhere else that would. There is no guarantee that using c…
Correct
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
They were built with that in mind, yes. But since then they've been raised several times already and there is continuous maintenance on weak points. The real problem is the rivers, keeping water out from the seaside is actually a simpler problem than preventing the interior from being flooded once the rivers are substantially below sea level themselves. Sea dikes and fortifications can be raised (at a cost), but rive…
the weak points (like the haringvlietdam and maeslantkering) can't (easily) be raised. and yes, the rivers will be a problem when we need to close the maeslantkering for extended periods of time when the sea level rises. it doesn't matter where the water comes from : the sea or the rivers, it will cause severe floods at some point. I guess we differ on the 'economically viable' part. but in the really long run (say g…
What is cheaper: building artificial dams and islands off the North Sea coast (for example), or re-settling 7 million people while simultaneously losing all your economic output?
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, Dutch export most of their food and turn around and import cheaper food from far away (Spain and Brazil being two common sources). Check it out at the grocery store sometime. It's not so easy to find the nice Dutch produce (the Germans are enjoying it!)
> It's not so easy to find the nice Dutch produce (the Germans are enjoying it!) Wait, is Dutch produce supposed to be nice? I know that in Germany, Dutch tomatoes are disparaged as "Wasserbomben", and in Romania the Dutch vegetables are the cheap supermarket stuff that you buy if you don’t a chance to pass by the marketplace and buy something locally grown.
Dutch greenhouses are in fact capable of producing "Wasserbomben" as well as quality produce -- at a higher price point. Unfortunately, supermarkets in most parts of the world have decided they prefer the former.
Re: When will the Netherlands disappear?
#100I find it a bit ironic given the MIT climate simulator on HN yesterday - the biggest impact (in that simulator) to climate change was the land/agriculture methane. Right now the Dutch farmers are again harassing the country with their tractors on public roads, angry about what they feel is undue pressure to reduce their emissions. Maybe they'll get one or two more generations of farming as they hasten their own demis…
I do not know the details, but it is my understanding that the Netherlands exports a large amount of its agricultural production. One could say, let's only produce what we need, and methane production will go down. However, if that was done, all of the countries that rely on the Netherlands for agricultural imports would need to increase production or find somewhere else that would. There is no guarantee that using c…
This pretty much sums it up.