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Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

citylab.com

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Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#91
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80% of Americans live in an urban area

This is misleading to most people. The US census counts the suburbs as urban. I don't believe most people referring to urban areas are referring to people in the suburbs. "To qualify as an urban area, the territory identified according to criteria must encompass at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters." https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/about/faq/...

Ban suburbs, too. They basically mainly exist to give white people a place to move to, to get away from pesky minorities.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#92
post #45

> When asked what they like most about a city they have visited [...] It's the people who live there you need to ask. People visiting a city generally have different goals and different constraints than people who live there.

I've read that, though never personally asked, people in manhattan rarely own cars and all the traffic is from outsiders and construction workers. I can't verify this but I suspect this is probably a pattern that is replicated in many major cities since most of the residents understand the functionality of the local public transportation system.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#93
post #82
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is over 3x as population dense as the USA. Any plan to make the USA transportation system to look like the EU's is doomed to failure from the beginning. You need to be realistic. You are never going to win hearts and minds by railing against cars - Americans love their cars, and for good reason. A bus is not going to pick you up at your front door the second you walk out, and it's not going to drop you directl…

And most people I know in Europe--especially those who are not just out of school--have cars. Europe is hardly some carless utopia even if public transit is, on the whole, better than in the US.

It becomes a 'right tool for the job' situation.

When we lived in Italy we:

* Walked to the grocery store, nearby pizza place, kids' schools, doctor and barber. Because it's not illegal (zoning) to build those things near where people live!

* Rode bikes downtown when the weather was decent

* Took the tram downtown with the kids.

* Took the car to go hiking in the hills or go visit my wife's parents in a small town 30 minutes away.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#94
post #45

> When asked what they like most about a city they have visited [...] It's the people who live there you need to ask. People visiting a city generally have different goals and different constraints than people who live there.

If I can't drive to near my destination, I'll not likely visit that city.

Well, that's you. I plan entire vacations around the idea of not having to drive anywhere while on them.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have really liked driving in Europe. The true benefit of driving is seeing what is in between cities.

Depends what part of Europe. Around the mediterranean, sure. But in the industrial north / Benelux - not so much to see, but the cities are gorgeous.

Strongly disagree. My wife & I cycled from Copenhagen to Skagen to Amsterdam to Paris. We loved both the cities and the countryside.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. I don't quite understand your point about the "technological and class di…

> America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. Then let's discuss some realistic solutions: Outside of densely populat…

> People parade around mass transit like it's the end all be all of great things we can do, and being a liberal around most things, I wish that was true. But even the stories about Japan's awesome mass transit make me cringe; stuck in a train for 45 minutes each way? Pass. The hardest conceivable pass. You know what my commute is? I get in my car and drive from my suburb to a business park. It takes 10 bloody minutes. Even driving my pickup truck, I use roughly 30 gallons of fuel every three weeks.

Hey that's pretty great! It sounds like you could be in an area where cars are the right solution to transport. Maybe that's due to population density or roads that were well-planned to get people where they need to go. Unfortunately there are also a lot of places where those things aren't true. In suburbs around Atlanta, Detroit, or Seattle, for example, many people commute 45+ minutes one way in slow-moving traffic. Car insurance can cost $250+ per month, plus gas and maintenance. Personally, I'd much rather spend 45 minutes in a train where I can read, listen to music, check emails, etc.. than in a car where I need to be fully alert. It's much safer too.

> In my area, small-ish city, we have pretty solid mass transit options but it's still a massive pain in the ass because you end up scheduling your entire day around the bus schedule. And if the bus isn't running when you might need to run an errand out?

I don't know the geography / economics of your particular area, but do you think people would be more inclined to use buses if they were more reliable? Adding routes and increasing the frequency of buses might restore some trust in the system. Existing subsidies for cars (public roads, mandatory parking minimums, etc.) could be redirected to public transit for greater effect.

I think we are generally in agreement that most American cities aren't currently set up in a way that makes public transit practical. When I talk about these issues, I'm not saying we should try to retrofit a train system to cities that are otherwise doing just fine. My hope is that articles like this will sway public support in favor of future developments that put an emphasis on people first, not cars. Suburbs originally developed to get away from the danger/congestion/smell of urban areas. But if we can design better urban spaces where people are more comfortable spending time, we can reap the advantages of higher population density. Of course, we can't just copy Japan or Europe. We'll need our own unique system that works for us.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#97
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the things that need to be solved, rather than celebrated. Commuting -- no matter which transport you're using, is a waste of time and energy.

I agree, but I also don't want to live like a sardine in a can, packed in with millions of others, living in a small box, having no green space, etc. I'm generally a social person, but don't like living that close to that many people. Many others seem to agree.

There are livable and afforable alternative to Manhattan style density and there are plenty of working examples. We just refuse to build that way.

Look at many continental European cities.

A mid-sized German city will be full of low to mid density buildings and walk up apartments, few skyscrapers. Mixed use of retail and residential, and very good transit by American standards, connecting to intercity rail transit. Highways frequently terminating or routing outside the city. Plenty of greenspace.

Leipzig, Germany https://www.google.com/maps/place/Leipzig,+Germany/@51.33310...

Even the US used to have this, though they are long drowned in sprawl. Any city that was of decent size pre-WWII usually has street car suburbs - a dense mix of single family homes, shops and apartments usually built around a transit node that connected to the core and region. Look at Shaker/Cleveland Heights and Lakewood in Cleveland. There is a healthy mix of uses and density centered around transit. You can see the pattern they developed around, even if it's vestigial at this point.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sympathise but I think this post has a few contradictions in it. For example, I'm not surprised the bus in your area is inconvenient schedule-wise because I assume you aren't the only person in your city who drives ten minutes to work. Ten minutes? Wouldn't it take you about thirty minutes maximum to walk in that case? If the walk would be unpleasant or otherwise not viable, can't that probably be blamed on car sys…

Ten minutes? Wouldn't it take you about thirty minutes maximum to walk in that case? You can go a lot more than 1.5mi in 10min if there isn't bad traffic. If 3/10 of those minutes are on a highway that's probably an hour or worth or more of walking. >If the walk would be unpleasant or otherwise not viable, can't that probably be blamed on car systems as well? Houston will be hot and Detroit will be cold for several m…

Regarding weather, that will always be a factor too. I was going to mention it, but I did that thing where I thought I included a sentence then it wasn't there when I reread what I'd written.

I see my position as not car-hostile or car-eliminatory but efficiency-maximising. With that said, this:

>Obviously there becomes a density point where it makes sense to offload a lot of the transportation needs onto public traffic by many cities and suburbs are not there yet.

Is a bit hard to swallow when car-default systems allow indefinite suburban growth. Feedback loop.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why? It seems patently absurd to me, especially when you're visiting. I'm visiting Berlin right now. It's a car friendly city in a car friendly country and I wouldn't want to drive anywhere here if you paid me. Too much of a hassle. Besides driving is so incredibly boring. If you're visiting, you're not going to really experience the city from behind the windows of a metal box. Maybe Northern America…

other options in USA are 1. Being abused by TSA 2. Take amtrak and get left middle of nowhere at 1 am , 2 days late. 3. Take greyhound/

This is a depressingly accurate assessment.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#100
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car free concept is strictly about city centers, and has nothing to do with those who live in the suburbs or rural areas. Absolutely no one is advocating removing cars from those areas. This has nothing to do with elitism, and everything to do with optimizing transportation for different environments. Proponents usually advocate for better metro transit networks, which would benefit those who live outside the cit…

>Absolutely no one is advocating removing cars from those areas. You'll find plenty of people here who will be happy to argue that living outside of dense cities is unsustainable and has to end. They're wrong. But it's their opinion.

I engage pretty heavily with civic & transit planning, and I've never heard someone argue that in my entire life. If that is an opinion held by some, they are certainly a minuscule minority.
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