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Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

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Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#91

Post by wdr1 »

me_me_me wrote: post #6
sunstone wrote: post #2

So Google really has hit the nadir of the wall that Microsoft hit when Gates testified before the Justice department. It's a tough day for all of us Google fan boys but it's time to look in the mirror and carefully consider the current reality.

What always baffles me is the term fanboy, how in this day and age do we still have people believing/having faith in a company. They all did something abhorrent or yet to be caught doing it. And yet we have people who would seemingly jump into fire for a brand (even in face of damning facts). Is this a form of ancient tribalism still at play?

> What always baffles me is the term fanboy, how in this day and age do we still have people believing/having faith in a company.

"in this day and age"

Where things different at some point? Or where you simply less familiar with other times?

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#92

Post by pizzazzaro »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #76
9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well before going full conspiracy, I believe a lot of tech people are anti union themselves compared to some other fields. I'm not one of them but as long as there is demand like right now for programmers, the conditions and pay is good.

From what I remember, the percentage of programmers/tech-workers who have libertarian/free-market views is much higher than percentage found in the general population.

Its almost like... Coders live lives of privilege even before they learn to code.

Imagine trusting the "Market" to make wise decisions.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#93

Post by hu3 »

iofiiiiiiiii wrote: post #72
hu3 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even searched for them? Took me 30 seconds to find this on a mobile phone while commuting to work: Four Google Employees fired for violating co-worker's data privacy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21635286 Top-level comment has a link with a list of articles.

The article in the linked post says nothing beyond repeating an obvious corporate soundbite and there is no list of articles in the comments. What list are you referring to?

Read again. I said "link with a list of articles". Try clicking the link.

And the linked article clearly states why they were fired:

"The latest development occurred Monday when Google (GOOG) sent an email to all staff members describing its decision to fire four employees for allegedly violating its data-security policies. Google confirmed the contents of the email titled "Securing our data," which was first obtained and reported on by Bloomberg. The email described some of the actions allegedly taken by the fired employees, including accessing other employees' calendars and sharing information about their whereabouts with outside sources. It was sent out on behalf of Google's Security and Investigations Team."

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#94

Post by xtiansimon »

jeen02 wrote: post #68
throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

Because the article title is extremely clickbaity and wrong. They fired four people because they were repeatedly breaking privacy policies and leaking documents.

> “They fired four people because they were repeatedly breaking privacy policies and leaking documents.”

I just heard the news about the firing and allegation google hired a firm with expertise to bust unions.

If you’ve ever worked an entry-level job at any firm with high turnover (retail, food service) you will know first hand managers excel who can manufacture write-ups, which become the basis for just-cause firing.

It’s a thing!

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#95

Post by dang »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

I don't know what you mean by heavy reporting? There were tons of submissions of this story, most of which were flagged by users.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21636583 is the main discussion now. That's a better article than this one from the point of view of the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html), because pure advocacy posts aren't as supportive of intellectually curious conversation. They're much more likely to start off on a polarized footing and degenerate from there. Also, they don't contain much information. In that way they fall in a category of related things like online petitions, event announcements, etc., that we tend to moderate as off topic for HN.

Certainly there have been plenty of stories on HN that are critical of Google, and they're not off topic, as long as they meet the site guidelines by being intellectually interesting. Note that word 'intellectually' though, because there are plenty of other kinds of interesting, which are fine, but not what this site is for.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#96

Post by dang »

yoelo wrote: post #35
dataduck wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading the other articles.

Care to tell us which articles?

The HN discussion has converged on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21636583.

You can find others here:

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=tru...

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=tru...

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#97

Post by JamesBarney »

pizzazzaro wrote: post #92
CryptoPunk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I remember, the percentage of programmers/tech-workers who have libertarian/free-market views is much higher than percentage found in the general population.

Its almost like... Coders live lives of privilege even before they learn to code. Imagine trusting the "Market" to make wise decisions.

I think this is far more likely because software engineers are drawn to arguments based on first principles over ones based on empiricism.

And the majority of libertarians arguments are both based on first principles and appeal to people who like this type of argument.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#98

Post by CryptoPunk »

iwintermute wrote: post #89
CryptoPunk wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unionization could very plausibly weaken the US tech sector. It's happened before (US Steel, the US passenger rail service, high-volume manufacturing, the Big Three auto makers).

Yeah, just remember what those pesky unions did to german automakers

(copy-pasting)

Germany seems to have strong unions and a strong auto industry, but the German economy as a whole has suffered decades of wage stagnation. One outperforming industry alone doesn't negate the broader correlation between restrictive labor laws, and degraded economic performance.

Also, Germany has many advantages in manufacturing that are independent of its labor laws, like a strong work ethic and tradition of engineering, good trade schools, etc. So an argument can be made that it has a strong tendency to be a manufacturing power that is capable of counter-acting the harmful effects of bad policies.

One possible indication that unionization has had a harmful impact on German economic development is if you look at Germany's past compared to its present you see that it developed more rapidly relative to its contemporaries before embracing the social-democratic/unionized-workforce model.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#99

Post by CryptoPunk »

pizzazzaro wrote: post #92
CryptoPunk wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I remember, the percentage of programmers/tech-workers who have libertarian/free-market views is much higher than percentage found in the general population.

Its almost like... Coders live lives of privilege even before they learn to code. Imagine trusting the "Market" to make wise decisions.

>>Imagine trusting the "Market" to make wise decisions.

The market just means other people, free to act without compulsion.

It works because information is transmitted through local decisions, as the changes local decisions make to supply/demand impact the prices that are communicated to the economy at large.

The resulting price system is a result of more economic calculations than any central economic planner could perform, which is why more market-based economies outperform more centrally-planned ones, as the empirical evidence shows.

Anyway, libertarians as a group are the most educated:

https://www.people-press.org/typology/quiz/?pass&src=typolog...

The above shows they do also have the highest incomes, which would support your "they're trying to protect their privilege" theory.

And libertarians are the most rational:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

Libertarian views are more consistent with those of economists:

https://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/the_big_four_ec.html

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#100

Post by r9gNJup6xExJ7gs »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #98
iwintermute wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, just remember what those pesky unions did to german automakers

(copy-pasting) Germany seems to have strong unions and a strong auto industry, but the German economy as a whole has suffered decades of wage stagnation. One outperforming industry alone doesn't negate the broader correlation between restrictive labor laws, and degraded economic performance. Also, Germany has many advantages in manufacturing that are independent of its labor laws, like a strong work ethic and traditi…

Du bist dumm.
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