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Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

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Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#91

Post by PavlovsCat »

davidwitt415 wrote: post #42

Mirror check on 'intense nationalism' - how many Americans supported or still support unlimited US military actions around the globe, not to mention CIA buggery? How has democratic activity slowed this down in any meaningful way in the last 20 years? You are not as immune as you think to government propaganda, it's just easier to spot when it's another country.

The fact that you can talk about that, while criticism of China gets shuffled off the front page EVEN on an American site, speaks volumes.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dx8rn0/absolutely...

What would you say is the American equivalent to that? And what would be the American equivalent to this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1rp31/are_we_rea...

And that is, all other actions considered, such a harmless and cute clip. Keeping it SFW.

https://www.facebook.com/MichaelYonFanPage/videos/9503534286...

How do you explain this?

> You are not as immune as you think

You don't know what I think. Personally, I'm not even American, and have criticized the US for the stuff you mention more harshly than the average American by orders of magnitude. That doesn't mean I don't see the infinite difference between the US government sometimes sucking, and the CCP (== no elections, no free press, torture camps, putting down protests over the law being broken with force, dictating to companies what they may post in Western countries, and so on). Yeah, Snowden had to run, but we can talk about Snowden. There's American books by American publishers about American war crimes, Noam Chomsky leads a full, critical life. There's a greater risk that the Chinese government might kidnap or assassinate him, just for saying something they don't like in passing, than the US govt laying hand on him. So to even mention the CCP and the US in one sentence... again, I'm not even American, and even I know all that and more.

The only data point you're offering for what you think about the subject at hand is this "mirror check". Those are a dime a dozen, people pretending to be objective or neutral, and calling it a mirror check -- when the whole point of the exercise them getting away from their own personal stance and responsibility, while creating straw men up about a generic other.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#92

Post by PavlovsCat »

mywittyname wrote: post #56
thorwasdfasdf wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who's ever lived in china for several years will tell you chinese nationalism is extremely intense. Even in america, if you have a conversation with a chinese person about the PRC or even just economic conditions in china, that person will in any case, always defend the PRC under any condition, no matter what the PRC has done, even if they themselves are against the PRC and agree with what your saying.

I do this when people from other nations unfairly criticize the USA, even when I agree with what they are saying. So as a word of advice, when this happens... > defend the PRC under any condition[...] even if they agree with what your saying. Then your argument likely heavy-handed or misses the nuance of the situation. Using the USA as an example, the impression a foreigner gets from looking at gun statistics is comp…

> So if a person from Europe starts to lecture you on guns in the USA, you're going to get a little defensive at their incorrect assumptions, even if you agree with their stance in general.

That is very much unlike, say, "defending all American gun laws to a T, without mentioning at all what you actually think, because they made you do it for being unfair or mistaken about something". And where that is the case, how you say things doesn't really matter, you won't get anyhwere either way. So you might as well be blunt, and if they want to correct something, let them. If they want to make excuses about being offended and not correct anything, it stands as is.

I know, because I get that all the time, when Americans say "Germany doesn't have freedom of speech" or such, because glorifying Nazism is illegal. I don't start pretending Germany is perfect in response to that, I quote them some basics about freedom of speech, stuff about American law and whatnot, and try to explain how there is no "totally unrestricted" free speech anywhere there is a listener. Then they always (no exceptions so far, probably because intelligent Americans don't even say "there is no freedom of speech in Germany" to begin with) drift off into nonsense or fall silent, because their brain seems to be unable to process what I'm telling them.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#94

Post by nailer »

paganel wrote: post #53
nailer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don't. The Chinese Communist Party being made up of Chinese people mean does not mean criticism of the CCP is criticism of Chinese people.

At the end of it all the Chinese people are supporting said regime, even if they're Party members or not, you have to take responsibility from a certain point on. And I do certainly judge my older compatriots for not having done more in order to stand up against the Communist regime in my own country (I live in an Eastern European country which technically was communist until 1989).

> At the end of it all the Chinese people are supporting said regime, even if they're Party members or not

There is no evidence of Chinese people freely support CCP rule.

If you want to support an evidence gathering exercise, stand with Hong Kong.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#95

Post by taobility »

mdni007 wrote: post #86
taobility wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard the news that Mark has learnt Chinese very hard, and even placed Xi's book at his office desk trying to please the visited Chinese officials? He didn't have any spine, and what he's doing right now just because he failed so have to change the strategy.

or maybe because his wife is Chinese?

I believe his wife speak Cantonese mostly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscilla_Chan), and Mark learnt Mandarin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2fucDSilWE. Even both are Chinese, but has huge difference in pronunciation.

Re: Zuckerberg’s Anti-China Rhetoric Roils Facebook's Chinese Employees

#96

Post by taobility »

mtnGoat wrote: post #80
taobility wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard the news that Mark has learnt Chinese very hard, and even placed Xi's book at his office desk trying to please the visited Chinese officials? He didn't have any spine, and what he's doing right now just because he failed so have to change the strategy.

Do you have a source for this? your past comments are very pro Chinese and also reference "other news" without citation. Trying hard to prop up the motherland in the public eye?

Come on, I am a nobody Chinese living in US, and China doesn't need my single prop up.
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