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Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

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Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#91

Post by flattone »

pmarreck wrote: post #50
Retric wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I just got rid of my Fitbit and never spoke of it on social media. My guess is it’s limited a few thousand to low tens of thousands of people which is not economically meaningful on it’s own. But, it does show another side of the privacy debate. Many companies are selling data not because it’s significant revenue, but rather because they have no reason to leave money on the table.…

I have never felt harmed or threatened by the idea that my anonymized data (health or otherwise) is being used by large organizations... assuming it is anonymized. As far as I can see, there are many good uses of this data (some potentially profitable, such as selling to health insurance companies so they can better price their products and evaluate risks) and very few bad uses of this data. Can someone please clarif…

If you research this via sprinkling of curiosity allocated time over the course of a year..you will not care. Because it isn't about what has already gone wrong. It isn't even about harm or risk. In the outside its about this information is me. It is mine. It is easy to disregard my dignity) autonomy/my precious private personal traits, preferences etc.

This, to me anyway, is lifeblood American identity stuff.

You might say "well congrats on your private liberty but youre sharing it right here for all companies to scoop up". But that's exactly that problem.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#92

Post by mavsman »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

I enjoyed my time working at Amazon but this method of gathering "feedback" on a recent product launch was one of the most popular and I wasn't a huge fan.

I know there was more to it than this but anytime there was a meeting where execs or product owners wanted to flex they would just grab a bunch of fanatical tweets about how great the launch/new product is, as though that proved it was a good launch.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#93

Post by Bartweiss »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

Similarly: even if a nontrivial number of people are dumping wearable trackers, is there evidence that it's disproportionately happening now or to Fitbit because of Google?

My first guess would be "as data breaches and abuses hit the news, people are more skeptical of wearable trackers in general". I've heard several people talk about getting hit by the MyFitnessPal security breach or Strava revealing army bases; it seems entirely possible that if there's a trend in these anecdotes it's not brand-specific.

Even if Fitbit is being hit especially hard, my first guess would be that it's as much about buggy connectivity and battery issues as anything else. Even if it's not a conscious evaluation, people do sacrifice privacy based on the actual value they're getting, and Fitbit has been a bit infamous for quality issues recently. (And is that a trend or just bored writers turning an example into a narrative? No idea, but it still affects Fitbit's perception.)

There are two whole schools of vacuous articles like this: either pick anecdotes and push them as a trend, or pick a broad statistical trend and narrow the focus to a group/brand which supports a narrative.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#94

Post by cascom »

Retric wrote: post #23
MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

I don’t know about anyone else, but I just got rid of my Fitbit and never spoke of it on social media. My guess is it’s limited a few thousand to low tens of thousands of people which is not economically meaningful on it’s own. But, it does show another side of the privacy debate. Many companies are selling data not because it’s significant revenue, but rather because they have no reason to leave money on the table.…

I deleted my account and stopped using mine - and told no one

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#95

Post by mumblemumble »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #72
pmarreck wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never felt harmed or threatened by the idea that my anonymized data (health or otherwise) is being used by large organizations... assuming it is anonymized. As far as I can see, there are many good uses of this data (some potentially profitable, such as selling to health insurance companies so they can better price their products and evaluate risks) and very few bad uses of this data. Can someone please clarif…

Because it is -never - going to be anonymized. They are going to call it anonymized, and then publicly apologize for it not being so a couple of times, while keeping business as usual. There is just no incentive for them to anonymize it.

More to the point, I'm not even sure that, in principle, it is possible to truly anonymize this data without spoiling the data science easter egg hunt. And the easter egg hunt is arguably the entire point of this kind of data collection.

You can do something like k-anonymizing the data and then destroying the original, personally identifiable data. But k-anonymity has its limits, too.

Every other strategy I know of assumes that it's OK to keep a private copy of the original data, which works well if we're talking about scenario such as a source that needs to keep the raw data (like a health care provider) providing the data with a semi-trustworthy external party such as a health researcher. But it doesn't address what I'm guessing is the main concern here, which is that, even if you accept for the sake of argument that Google currently has no intention to do gross things with the data, they can't make any promises that will hold indefinitely. It's a long-lived organization that whose policies might change with any change in leadership, market, or even political conditions, so any promises they might make are simply meaningless in the long run. As they would be with any organization, regardless of the presence or absence of any present-day warm fuzzy feelings.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#96

Post by nevir »

After having worked at Google, it is the only company I actually do trust with my data. (But I am also ok with them using it to customize my experience, and even target ads)

Their internal privacy controls are extensive.

As a human, it is nearly impossible to access someone's data, even when debugging code/ML models/etc.

And when you do need to, it requires exhaustive oversight/approval, and _everything_ is audited.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#97

Post by dspillett »

supercanuck wrote: post #55
MichaelApproved wrote: post #19

Classic example of an article in search of a movement. Take a handful of tweets that share an opinion and write an article that makes it seem like there's a mass exodus. It's ok, you don't need anything more than a handful of tweets to back your claim. Yes, some people are privacy conscious and are going to stop using Fitbit but how many are actually doing it? A lot? A few? Who knows. I'm sure author has no clue but…

What is wrong with using Twitter as a source? This is how people communicate in 2019 What method would serve you better?

The issue being taken here isn't specifically twitter as a source but "a handful of tweets" as the source. Extrapolating/exaggerating from a very small sample of views into the impression of a mass movement.

It is like asking a couple of random people if they know me, getting negative responses, and using them as the basis for an article about the mysterious Dave person who no one seems to know anything about.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#98

Post by cameronbrown »

magashna wrote: post #83
supercanuck wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is wrong with using Twitter as a source? This is how people communicate in 2019 What method would serve you better?

Obviously man on the street is more legitimate.

Everyone uses streets. Only a certain set of the population (usually left leaning & young) use Twitter.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#99

Post by criddell »

fluidcruft wrote: post #88
criddell wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I'm not going to use a health monitoring device from an advertising company.

I flip-flop on that. I mean you just get more relevant and useful ads? Running shoes on sale? Cool if I need some. But you also don't want ads publicizing private health info to people who are nearby. Like, I don't want to sit down and watch "TV" at a friends house and have to wonder why I'm seeing ad after ad for valtrex.

I used to be on the relevant ads side of the equation. Then I realized that I have been pumping data into Google for two decades and I still get terrible ads. I've let Google peek into many parts of my life and they aren't giving me more useful ads now then they did in 1998.

Plus, if I need shoes it's not hard to find shoes. I order from Zappos and they show up tomorrow.

Re: Some users say they're getting rid of Fitbit because they don't trust Google

#100

Post by cosmojg »

nkrisc wrote: post #5

I had recently begun considering a smart watch to replace my original Pebble, and was considering Fitbit, but this is exactly why I won't be going with them. I'm slowly De-Googling and spreading my digital life across multiple providers instead of being at the mercy of a single one. I don't expect my total privacy exposure will be significantly less, but it's more about not having my email, media purchases, phone int…

PINE64 is working on a privacy-respecting Linux smartwatch dubbed the PineTime: https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php/PineTime

Once my Pebble Time dies, I think that's where I'm going.

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