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PeerTube v2

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Re: PeerTube v2

#91

Post by tiborsaas »

jasode wrote: post #85
tiborsaas wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There could be multiple search servers. I don't understand how that goes against the centralized nature, links to the video hosting instances would still be essential. Distributed services still benefit the traffic from Google, DDG, etc. Why this project is special? I fail to see how an search index would be bad user experience. Compare that to the current situation of 61 isolated, unsearchable PeerTube instances.

Ok, I think we're talking past each other. Let me attempt to unravel. You/SamBam/danShumway are at the abstraction level of technical protocols, parsing JSON files, index servers, etc. I'm at the abstraction level of psychology and emergent group behavior that overrides those ideal technical structures. >Distributed services still benefit the traffic from Google, This sentence is a perfect example of how we're focusi…

What does this emergent behavior mean in practice? It's not inherently good or bad. If my index becomes more popular than individual nodes, so what? PeerTube is doomed? As you mentioned, I don't see a problem with this. User experience matters a lot and Google realized this 20 years ago. 1 input, 10 instant results, the rest is history.

I see you don't like this, but slicing up a service to isolated islands won't help much. It's a good step forward, but search is essential and in this case takes very little effort.

Furthermore PeerTube instances are centralized services too, if one gets very popular, then it will thrive / suffer the same way YouTube did.

Re: PeerTube v2

#93

Post by chungus_khan »

tasogare wrote: post #25

The work done is awesome. I’ll try it because the idea of self-hosting low traffic videos is interesting. Besides, I can’t stand articles that use the so called écriture inclusive. Either they write in the accepted, standardized version of French or they fork it but don’t call it French.

Sprecaþ ᵹē Englisce? Language does evolve. English used to be a heavily inflected language with 5 grammatical cases and three grammatical genders, very free word order, negative concord, no do-insertion, etc.

And no matter how much AF wants people in France to say "fin de semaine", they won't. A language is defined by the body speaking it, and standards bodies can really only suggest things to them.

Re: PeerTube v2

#94

Post by olah_1 »

gillesjacobs wrote: post #8

In the space of distributed video platforms, I think Peertube has the right idea: Bitchute is gaining a lot of traction, but the core issue of centralized control remains. Distributed content delivery is not enough to prevent censorship and viewer manipulation. Federation will allow many platforms to proliferate and solves this problem. I hope Peertube gains traction, but they're fighting an uphill battle when it com…

> Unlike Youtube they cannot use a recommender system like for suggestions. Most Youtube views are from recommendations and related videos.

Maybe they could recommend content by storing the content metadata/viewcounts/social graph in a FLOOD style network like Aether[1].

Then the content itself is just linked via an IPFS/DAT url within the metadata.

[1]: https://getaether.net/

Re: PeerTube v2

#95

Post by jasode »

tiborsaas wrote: post #91
jasode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I think we're talking past each other. Let me attempt to unravel. You/SamBam/danShumway are at the abstraction level of technical protocols, parsing JSON files, index servers, etc. I'm at the abstraction level of psychology and emergent group behavior that overrides those ideal technical structures. >Distributed services still benefit the traffic from Google, This sentence is a perfect example of how we're focusi…

What does this emergent behavior mean in practice? It's not inherently good or bad. If my index becomes more popular than individual nodes, so what? PeerTube is doomed? As you mentioned, I don't see a problem with this. User experience matters a lot and Google realized this 20 years ago. 1 input, 10 instant results, the rest is history. I see you don't like this, but slicing up a service to isolated islands won't hel…

>What does this emergent behavior mean in practice? It's not inherently good or bad. If my index becomes more popular than individual nodes, so what?

Apathy or indifference is also a valid position. However, I was addressing the many who do think there's "bad" in that emergent behavior.

What does it mean in practice? Some believe Google's search index, Youtube's video service, Facebook, etc have too much power over the internet. Therefore, lecturing them that "the http protocol itself is already decentralized so what does it matter that one http node spelled "youtube" is more popular?" -- is not a satisfactory explanation. They want to change that power imbalance.

Therefore, I believe the social ideals for p2p video would be to take away power from Youtube and have it more widely dispersed. Ideally, nobody would be big enough to "dominate" in the web video ecosystem. There wouldn't be a Power Law of popular cache index servers with one eventually dominating.

I'm saying that p2p video really can't prevent that from happening if a bunch of users voluntarily gravitate towards index servers which are centralized -- which negates the power-dissipating intentions of p2p. Also consider that many video content creators would voluntarily upload their videos to those index cache servers which further solidifies the centralization of power. Humans keep being humans and will subvert the (global) goals of decentralization and (local individual actions) aggregated together inadvertently recreate centralized platforms!

If you don't care about that, that's valid but a lot of others do based on common complaints of Youtube wielding too much influence.

Re: PeerTube v2

#96

Post by Communitivity »

A major differentiator for PeerTube, if they are still doing the decentralized data route, is that content publishers control their content. I am curious if that is still the case with PeerTube, but it used to be 'Mastodon for Videos'. That means a central authority can't take down videos. A site like peertube.social can only ban certain videos from being shared through its site, or ban individual users, and perhaps keep a blacklist to share with other sites.

I find it interesting that the Madame Secretary episode I watched last night (from last week) dealt with the issue of deep fakes. Particularly how easy it is, if someone is willing to put in the time, to create and publish video showing someone doing/saying something they'd never do.

Decentralized trust and reputation metrics are going to be a big thing over the next decade.

Re: PeerTube v2

#97

Post by ajuc »

My problem with peertube is - if I install it and federate I'll have all sorts of illegal videos on my computer. Nazi propaganda, child porn, anything.

I'm not going to spend hours moderating that, and I certainly don't want to explain myself to police.

And if I don't federate it's basically less convenient ftp.

Re: PeerTube v2

#98

Post by sabujp »

elephant in the room: how does this platform deal with DMCA requests, copyright violations, and content moderation.

Re: PeerTube v2

#99

Post by birracerveza »

jcfrei wrote: post #84

I really like the idea behind these types of decentralized projects. However I want to mention that they rarely take off. And it's usually not due to some technical or marketing related reason. The simple economic reason for the lack of their success is that centralized organization like YouTube can operate much more efficiently than a decentralized one like peertube. Some of the reasons are: Higher organizational ef…

I just want a place (that I own) where I can store my videos, watch them and share them with people. Even if they didn't work on Peertube anymore it's already enough if they give me basic (but working) features. Not everything has to keep "improving" all the time.

A big THANK YOU to those who contribute to this project.

Re: PeerTube v2

#100

Post by ajuc »

lewisflude wrote: post #43

Went on https://peertube.video/ and immediately got a bunch of porn. Not really sure from a consumer aspect this is yet fully there from a UX perspective! But the tech is really interesting and as a federated alternative I could see it doing really well. Best of luck to the team!

This is the nazi bar effect. If everybody forbids something, and you allow it - you quickly get associated only with that 1 thing you allow others don't.

Normal people don't want to hang around in a bar that allows nazis, and nazis from everywhere go there because it's the only place.

Peertube solves the easy problem (infrastructure) and ignores the hard problems: search, discoverability, moderation, accountability, handling all the relevant laws.

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